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  • mikey52
    Posts: 65
    Joined: Jul 13th, 2007, 10:27
    Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    Hey guys, I will try to be as clear and concise on this issue as I can. Here is what I am trying to do: I would like the sound from my U87 (vocals, acoustic guitar, etc.) to go through my universal audio Neve 1073 plugin. Basically in a "pre" setting rather than "post". I'm using an apogee Ensemble Audio Interface. What I tried to do was use a pre aux channel, but I was getting a delay. I lowered my buffer all the way down and still had a delay. So that wasn't the problem. I think the problem is I don't know what to do. haha Anyway, thanks guys, you are the best logic problem solvers out there (no pun intended) Thanks, Mike
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    Hi Mikey, If you want to record the neve effect destructively... 1. create an Input Channel in the Environment. 2. Set up the correct Inputs and outputs. 3. Insert the neve 1073 plug-in as the first insert. 4. Record using the normal audio track. Otherwise, would placing the neve 1073 as the first plug-in on the audio track's signal chain work ok for you? Cheers Rounik
    Reply
  • mikey52
    Posts: 65
    Joined: Jul 13th, 2007, 10:27
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    Thank you so much Rounik And to create that input channel?.......
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    [quote:19107]And to create that input channel?....... [/quote] er...I'm not near Logic right now... I think: In the Environment's menu choose: File > New Channel strip > Input channel Or something similar. An Input channel looks exactly the same as an audio track really. But, remember, this method will record the neve effect destructively to your audio. Placing the neve as your first plug-in insert and then recording enables you to change the neve settings later and bounce it dwn to audio when you are ready. Cheers Rounik
    Reply
  • Christian L
    Posts: 1410
    Joined: Aug 7th, 2006, 11:50
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    [quote:19107]Thank you so much Rounik And to create that input channel?....... [/quote] In the Environment local menu, select New > Channel Strip > Input. Any plugins that are on the insert of the Input Channel Strip will be recorded permanently. Christian
    Reply
  • mikey52
    Posts: 65
    Joined: Jul 13th, 2007, 10:27
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    Cool, Thanks so much to both of you. There was still a very slight latency which I pretty much all but corrected (down to the mili-mili seconds) by going to a 64 buffer size. But am I going to lose anything in the recording by going to that low of a buffer? I normally run at 256. Thanks as always, Mike
    Reply
  • Christian L
    Posts: 1410
    Joined: Aug 7th, 2006, 11:50
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    Hi Mikey, As long as your system is able to handle it, you won't lose anything in the recording. Using a low buffer size puts a higher strain on the CPU and you will start to hear crackles and pops if you have too many plugins.
    Reply
  • Cajypiu
    Posts: 400
    Joined: Oct 11th, 2006, 09:48
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    Hi Mikey, if you're using a Neve plugin I take it you're using a Universal Audio card either internally or externally? The last time I checked, UA, as with TC powercore's and any other external processing power will cause more of a delay than native plugins.... no matter what plugin compensation you dial up. Plugins such as the Neve stuff are generally used on mixing and not for whilst monitoring due to the very problem you are having. It's a tough call really because some might argue that they get more of a vibe when listening to processed guitar, for example, so get better recordings as a result. But if what you are monitoring is delayed enough to distract you when performing, then you probably won't get the performance you're after either. Suggestion would be to use one of logic's EQs or effects that get near to where you want it to sound as they won't be as delayed as much (unless you use limiters/ compressors et al), record away (undestructively as Rounik pointed out) and then when you have got a performance you're happy with, slap any kind of fancy plugin you want on it until you're super happy! Just a thought!
    Reply
  • mikey52
    Posts: 65
    Joined: Jul 13th, 2007, 10:27
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    So it seems that the general consensus is to NOT use the neve in this destructive manner but record it dry and then add it on after. But then why do some engineers use this monster mic-pre's when they are just going to end up putting on plug-ins that will change the sound afterwards? I guess all that I really care about is that the vocals or acoustic guitar gets that great neve tone and warmth as if I had plugged directly into a real one. So if it can still work just as well "post" performance than, cool. But if it will sound more "neve" by doing it in this aux input way, then let me know. I appreciate all this feedback ps, I really think you guys have a great team. You should be really happy to work together. Mike
    Reply
  • Cajypiu
    Posts: 400
    Joined: Oct 11th, 2006, 09:48
    Re: Using a Neve plug-in as a Pre
    Hi Mike, well, kind of yes. If you are a good engineer/ musician, and you have the very real, very expensive, very hard to find box then you might find yourself in the position to commit to tape what you are hearing. Whether you use outboard gear or plugins different people have different ways of working, and/ or some talented individuals can visualise what sounds will fit together in their head, therefore, know what is good to commit. Think George Martin and an 8-track and listen to how many sounds he has going on especially Sgt Pepper era... mind you I think he had a 16 track at that point, but you get the drift. BUT, thing is with the real gear is that you won't have this latency delay problem when monitoring. You might not have a house either they cost so much but you know, that's a different scenario. When you are in the computer/ plug in era, it's a bit of a different ball game. Computers can run lots of tracks with lots of effects but if you are doing it real time, this can cause issues. You plug in a guitar to your sound card, the sound goes in the computer, finds it's way to your audio software of choice, logic, it gets processed with effects, it goes out of logic, out of the computer, in to your headphones/ speakers for you to jam along to. That chain takes time and you can tweak it to reduce it, i.e. buffers, and in some cases the delay can be negliable, but when you start running plugins like neve, you have another link in the chain in the guise of another piece of hardware and software that the computer has to deal with. There is also a very real software integration code efficiency amongst manufacturers to be aware of too. It's all about physics at the end of the day! To make work you need time! To the other extreme, however, workflows are still just as important. You have to commit to sounds somewhere along the line otherwise you will find yourself being an eternal knob tweaker rather than a music maker but again, depending on how you work and who you work with, will depend on how much flexibility you need with your sounds. The best example I can give you is this. You record a vocalist and decide to compress it heavily to suit the style of music you're going for. You're confident to compress on the way in, so commit to that sound. There is an artistic change which requires a softer vocal... but because you recorded destructively, you can't undo. If it was applied afterwards you can simply call up the plug, redial it and off you go. You might argue, re-record, but you might have to get the vocalist back in (time, availability, money), if the vocalist is you, you might not care about the previous bits but if it was a vibe you were going for, you may not be able to get it again. Right place right time right amount of alcohol. Computers and plugins afford flexible productions. Flexible productions allow one person to be the composer, musician, engineer, producer, mixer and mastering boff. Some use it, some don't but don't think that your sounds will suffer when you tweak away during 'post'. Depending on what composition and arrangement you have, and what you have committed to 'tape' will determine what you need/ want to during 'mixdown'. Hope that helps and yes I agree, Macprovid rocks :)
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