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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Hi everybody! This is my first post to the forums, so I'm not sure if what I'm about to ask is particularly kosher, since it doesn't have much to do with the TNT series itself (which I love), but is more of a request for help with a complicated environment. Still, seeing so many helpful folks around, I figured I'd give it a go. Here's the skinny on it: Recently, I've been able to create a pretty nifty multi-channel setup with Kontakt 3 and Logic 8. I've routed the outs from a Kontakt 3 instance to the 16 channels of a multi-instrument in Logic with Aux tracks, which allows me to see the K3 volumes in the Logic mixer (awesome). The problem I've run into is that any Controller data I send to the multi instrument is applied to the entire stem. There seems to be no way to send individual hyperdraw data to each 'sub-channel' on an aux track of the multi instrument. I recently found an environment which claims to be able to do everything I'd like to be able to do, but it's extremely complicated to understand and modify. What I am wondering is, if I posted the environment file, would folks be willing to help make sense of it in a step-by-step fashion, if possible? Another reason I thought of posting it here was that perhaps it would be a very useful tool for others to have... Please chime in and let me know if you'd be interested in providing your expertise in helping me understand! If so, I'll post the environment! (I should mention that it's an environment I found over at Logic Pro Help, from a thread which seems to have died long ago). Thanks for reading! S.
    Reply
  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    I'd love to see it... and try to decipher it! Steve H.
    Reply
  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Hi Steve! Thanks so much for your willingness to help! After many tries at uploading the environment as a zip file in the File Exchange section, I've given up and decided to host it on my server. Here's the link! [url]http://www.kuklamusic.com/Multi_Channel_Instruments.lso.zip[/url] Hopefully that will take you to the zip file! I'm really looking forward to finally understanding this and being able to modify it for my own use, so, from one Steve to another (and everyone in between!), thanks again! Steve K.
    Reply
  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Thanks. Got it. I'll elaborate tomorrow... too late now :)
    Reply
  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Thanks, I look forward to it! :)
    Reply
  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Ok, a few questions. 1. THis really weird! Are you using a controller and if so, what happened to your physical input object? I'm not sure how midi is getting to your tracks without a physical input object... unless you moved it to another layer...! 2. Can you explain the following more clearly: [i]Recently, I've been able to create a pretty nifty multi-channel setup with Kontakt 3 and Logic 8. I've routed the outs from a Kontakt 3 instance to the 16 channels of a multi-instrument in Logic with Aux tracks, which allows me to see the K3 volumes in the Logic mixer (awesome).[/i] 3. Why are your hardware synths coming into aux channels (other than for monitoring purposes)?
    Reply
  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Hi! I'll try to explain as much as I know. 1. This particular environment wasn't something I made, but was instead a nifty-looking solution I found elsewhere. Unfortunately, apart from making some guesses about how it works, I know very little about it. 2. The comment I made was a description of my attempts to solve my problem on my own, not this environment I'm seeking help with. Essentially what happened in my own setup was, I would do the following: a. Start with a 16 stereo out multichannel instance of Kontakt 3. Insert, say, 8 more tracks in that arrange window. (Create with next midi channel). b. Inside of Kontakt 3, I set up 16 outputs, so that all 16 channels of the instance could be routed back into logic. c. Used Aux channels in the Logic mixer which corresponded to the outs of Kontakt 3. So, in effect, I could then control individual volumes of the channels of the K3 instance inside of Logic through the aux tracks while inputting notes and such on the respective tracks in the arrange page. This was necessary because whenever I'd make volume edits in one of the arrange window tracks I'd inserted, it would make the edit across the entire instrument... Problem is, while I can see the volume in the aux tracks and edit it for mixing, I still can't use hyperdraw on those tracks I inserted in the arrange window because any hyperdraw data gets applied to the entire multichannel instrument. So this environment claims to allow a user to have different multi-channel instances, and then to be able to have control over individual channels within the instances. So, then for example, if I have an instance of K3 which has Violin, Viola and Cello, each one could have its own hyperdraw data to allow for different hyperdraw envelopes, but still come from the same instance of K3. Here's the thread I took it from, hopefully it can offer more information than I have! [url]http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=3017&sid=b8a06c8647cd0a45c52156728bbc5e37[/url] I really hope I haven't scared you and Igor off... Thanks for spending time on this, I really appreciate it!
    Reply
  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Hi again, Just in case the forum post above is inaccessible, here's the text from the author of the environment: "This environment includes mini-mixers for each one of the instruments I use the most: EWQLSO, MOTU Symphonic Orchestra and Stormdrum. The MIDI faders for the sub-channels of each multi are linked with the corresponding instrument and aux levels, so that adjusting the level on the Arrange Track's MIDI fader adjusts the level of the Aux object that has the corresponding intrument's output. To use this environment with another multitimbral & multichannel software instrument: You can import one of the mini-mixer layers into your own Autoload or template, and use it with any other multitimbral instrument. You'll also have to reinstantiate the inputs on the aux objects, and also import the Software Instrument layer. Sustain pedals and all controllers other than 7 through 10 are now transmitted to the plug-in. Song start, end marker repositioned, locators cancelled (both on 1 1 1 1). You can't accidentally turn on the cycle by clicking in the Bar Ruler. Turning Cycle on always plays the whole song from the top. The Arrange window now loads instantly." I hope this is helpful! Steve K.
    Reply
  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    I'm wondering if I'm out of luck with this environment? If so, I'm wondering if there's a way to do what I'm looking for. I know Logic can do this--everyone I know is bashing on Logic for making it difficult, but I'm standing by it! I imagine it's most likely my lack of knowledge and not a shortcoming of the software... Any suggestions?
    Reply
  • Nudoguy
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2006, 02:41
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Hi SteveK, I looked at your example song and it seems to me that you're using a Logic Multi to send MIDI to a Kontakt instance (in several cases). For example, your EW Brass 4 is cabled (remotely) to your EWBrass4 Audio Instrument Strip where Kontakt is loaded. The problem with this kind of method is that you are severely restricted in the Arrange Window as well as with sending controller data, as you have discovered. There is another way to achieve what you want. It takes a while to set up, but it's well worth it. Here goes.... THE CLONE METHOD: 1. Select your Audio Instrument in the Environment Window - eg EW Brass 4 (the channel strip with Kontakt loaded) 2. Name the strip EW Brass 4 Ch1 3. Set its MIDI Channel to Ch1 4. Option-drag the strip to make a copy (you may need to clear some space for this) - place it next to the original. 5. You have just made a CLONE of the first strip. You have *not* loaded a separate instance of Kontakt. 6. Set its MIDI Channel to Ch2 - name the strip EW Brass 4 Ch2 7. Keep making clones until you have 8 or 16 or however many channels you need. 8. Remember to set each new clone to the next MIDI channel and rename each strip. 9. You now have 16 clones of one Kontakt instance. Now, instead of your old method of using channels of the Multi to control your score in the arrange window, use these clones. Each clone will control a separate MIDI channel in Kontakt, but you'll find you can send all controller data that you need, specific to each MIDI channel. You can even use Logic's Automation and separately automate each arrange track where a clone is loaded - ie, you can automate parameters for each part within Kontakt. Going even further, you should find that when you enable Automation, that a unique menu for automating Kontakt parameters will pop up. (I don't have Kontakt but I use this method with Stylus RMX). The one apparent drawback is that if you move the volume or pan controls of one strip, all clones are affected. The way past this is to use the volume and pan controls inside Kontakt, which you should be able to automate as explained above. eg Volume or Pan or Part 1 or whatever Hope this makes sense..... Regards - Colin
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