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  • Richard Nash
    Posts: 25
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 04:10
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    hmmmmm... I think this post illuminates a problem with Logic's multi-timbral architecture. To have the ability to control the multiple outputs of a multi-instrument completely independently and without any restrictions would be very nice indeed. Unfortunately it seems that Logic is not capable of this yet. Something I'd like to see in the future is unlimited mono and stereo outs for a multi instrument. As many or as few as needed. Right now Everything is limited to a certain amount of outs. Ultrabeat, for example, can only allow 8 stereo and 8 mono outs as its oneand only multi-out option. I would like to be able to have 25 stereo outs (seeing as there are 25 different synths in one instance of Ultrabeat) if I felt like it, or any combination of mono and stereo outs decided by the user, not the program. This would be a little slice of heaven for me personally as I like to separate all my drum sounds out on different mixer channels. Another example would be 128 different outputs, each one either mono or stereo, for battery 3, as 128 is the maximum amount of cells available in that program. Would I use all of them? Probably not for a while. But if the architecture is set up in this manner, then any level of programming I do will be completely flexible. It would be the same for say, 11 sounds, as it would be for 128. Multi-instrument nirvana. Just my 2 cents. MP
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  • Nudoguy
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2006, 02:41
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    [quote:24604]hmmmmm... I think this post illuminates a problem with Logic's multi-timbral architecture. To have the ability to control the multiple outputs of a multi-instrument completely independently and without any restrictions would be very nice indeed. Unfortunately it seems that Logic is not capable of this yet.[/quote] I don't see this as a "Logic Problem". Multi-instruments in Logic's environment were originally designed to control external hardware (eg synths) which responded to the 127 controllers in the MIDI spec. If you watch SteveH's latest videos (September 2008), you'll see how he has used a Transformer to transform CC7 (Volume) to CC11 (Expression) to control a softsynth. Using the Environment in creative ways like this enables one to control all the parameters that can be controlled. The drawback for me with using this approach is that the Arrange tracks which contain the Multi-Instrument channels are very limited - ie Volume/Pan + 127 standard CC no's which often don't work or relate to anything in the synth. You generally can't get deep into the architecture of a Softsynth like Stylus RMX or Korg's M1. However, by using the clone method which I detailed above, every track "points" at the softsynth (just like Steve's method) but in addition, you are able to get all the instantly automatable parameters which show in Logic (which you get a glimpse of in Steve's video called "Multi-Timbral Synths vary"). But that's the great thing with Logic - so many ways to do the same thing!
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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Hi Colin! Thanks a ton for helping with this issue. I'm greedily making my way through SteveH's videos on the subject now, (thanks, Steve), and I'm wondering: I pretty much hate the way this template is so convoluted in the arrange window. Would you be willing to detail your solution to the multi-timbral problem (as it were) from a blank logic document? I'd love to follow along and actually understand what's happening... Thanks again! Steve K
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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    So, I've followed Steve H's awesome tutorials on the subject using Kontakt 3. Everything's set up, I have my track, and my transformer working, I'm playing notes on the midi instrument track (not the audio instrument) just as in the tutorial... And nothing happens. Can it be that Kontakt 3 doesn't respond to CC11? Hopefully someone can help shed some light on this one for me, I'm so close! Thanks! Steve K
    Reply
  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Woo, solved this one. Okay, for those who are interested, and who don't already know: Depending on the sample library, you may need to go into each instrument you load into Kontakt and manually add a modulator for volume. (Or, as Kontakt calls it, an Amplifier modulator, which is likely a more appropriate way to put it...) Anyway, to do this, open the instrument for editing by clicking the wrench icon. We need to make sure we edit ALL groups within the instrument, so, first, we'll need to select the 'Group Editor' tab. Once there, make sure that all of the groups have check-marks next to them, and that the red box labeled 'Edit All Groups' is bright red. (I had to click on it a few times to compare...) Next, click on the 'Group Editor' tab again, and you should see the first screen you saw when you opened the instrument editing panel. In the green area, you'll see two 'sections': 'Source' and 'Amplifier'. Under Amplifier, you should see a tab called 'Mod', for Modulation. Find the tab which says 'Add Modulator' and choose External Source -> midi CC from the menu. Next, in the box beside the tab, or dropdown, or whatever it is, enter 11 for Expression. (You could, of course, enter another number for another controller, etc.) In the next box, enter 127, the max range of the controller. The tab next to that with the lines on it is the curve by which the modulation occurs. Normally, you'd want a smooth diagonal line. I only found one odd way to achieve this outside of drawing it manually, and my drawing skills kinda blow. Here's how I did it: When you click the curve button, under preset, select: factory->velocity curves->concave1. Then, click the 'table' button which will amend the concave shape into a straight vertical line. Then, re-click the 'table' button, and you'll have your linear fade-in curve. Leave Invert alone and slide the slider next to it up to 100% (I think this is the maximum percent of range the curve can access?) So, in essence, we're saying that, when the controller is up to it's full range (100%), it should be referencing 127 (which 100% in MIDI terms)... Yeah. Anyhow, leave the LAG box alone, and the final tab set to 'volume'. Once I did all of that, my instrument responded wonderfully to Steve H.'s tutorial. Awesomeness. It does kinda blow that over 20GBs worth of patches have to now be altered in this way to ALL take advantage of using CC11, but then again, it's an older library, and I really don't see any other way of doing it. Hope this is helpful to somebody! Steve K
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Help understanding a complicated environment?
    Hi Steve, Thanks for posting this solution! I'm not a Kontact user - but am sure there are many who will find it useful. :-) Rounik
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