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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi all, Recently, I was pondering over some nifty things I'd like to try with Logic, and I thought of something cool. What if I could create a nifty effect with a plugin, let's say the Delay Designer, and then have it follow a sort of trigger envelope of sorts, so that I could trigger the effect at a particular moment. Better yet, what if I could even hyperdraw in a fade-in to the delay effect? Are these sorts of things possible with plugins, and what are some strategies to best achieve them? I do remember watching one of Steve's tutorials on side-chaining effects and then triggering them with the midi keyboard via an EXS24 instance with no input. That might be the best way to trigger an effect wherever you might want it, but I thought perhaps there might be a more straightforward way, and it would seem like if you could create an envelope for controlling a Logic plugin, you could easily automate its attack, volume, pan, and release... Eager to hear from those who know! Thanks for reading! Steve
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi Steve, Side chaining would be the thing to do (in regards to envelopes as triggers). Also, you could place the delay designer on an Aux and send the track's signal to the Aux track. Then you can easily automate the send level. Even easier, if you want to gate the effect (ON/OFF) you can automate the Bypass for any effect on the track's channel strip. Do these suggestions help? Rounik
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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi Rounik, Thanks for these suggestions, they do help! I'll need to go back and check out Steve's tutorial on side-chaining effects, but it did seem pretty cut and dry. I'm wondering about the following: [quote:7638]Also, you could place the delay designer on an Aux and send the track's signal to the Aux track. Then you can easily automate the send level.[/quote] Is it relatively easy to automate Aux tracks? Would I need to have the aux tracks in the arrange window in order to facilitate automation? Also, another question regarding this technique: Is it ever prudent to use a wet/dry mix with effects other than reverb? This delay designer, for example. Would there be a good reason to do this with the delay designer and then somehow automate the wet/dry mix? Is it safe to assume then, that you cannot control knobs and dials within plugins themselves? (If you could, and you used a plugin like SubBass which has a wet/dry slider, that'd be pretty easy to control.) Just running through some ideas. Thanks for the feedback, looking forward to more! Steve
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi Steve, Yes, automating Aux tracks is easy. But, you're right you need to assign/create the Aux track in the Arrange area. You can do this very easily by opening the Mixer and ctrl-clicking on an Aux/selected Aux's and select "Create in Arrange". Regarding wet/dry on non-reverb effects... well it depends on the sound you want to achieve. I quite like to put say a tape delay on an Aux and set the send from a snare part to that Aux at zero and on certain parts of the dub snare automate the send level so only certain hits have a delay effect... and then i can fade out the delay easily by adjusting the amount of the signal that passes through the aux rather than using bypass which would cut the sound out altogether. Basically having an effect on the channel strip as opposed to sending an amount of the signal to an Aux with the effect will produce a different effect. So if you want the whole signal effected by the effect, place it on the track's channel strip You can automate all of the knobs and parameters within all the plug-ins, whether they be on the track itself or on an Aux track. Try it out. It's a lot of fun! There's more about automation - such as converting track automation to region based automation, which can make moving automation between tracks really convenient... but that's worthy of another post ;-) Rounik
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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi Rounik (and others!) I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind touching on something you mentioned earlier in this thread ... "triggering" the bypass button on a plugin. How is this done, exactly, particularly with and without the use of a control surface? Can such a thing also be controlled with key-presses from a MIDI keyboard controller? Also, does anyone know...does Logic have the ability do the following: 1.) Collect Audio 2.) Process it 3.) Store the Processed audio for 'triggering' later? I've built some patches to do this with MAX/MSP, and, while I know there's the Pluggo interface available for making MAX/MSP AU plugins within Logic, I'm wondering if plugins or methods exist in Logic? Thanks for reading, hopefully this makes some kind of sense... Steve K.
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi Steve, In the Environment you can build a Bypass button. Check out the environment I uploaded on TNT (shameless plug ;-) : [url]http://tnttutorials.macprovideo.com/fileexchange/environments/more_info.php?id=8[/url] You can also automate the plug-in to bypass using track automation... And you can use a MIDI Controller easily to learn this command: 1. Click on the Plug-ins bypass button (or Option click it's name in the Channel strip). 2. Go to Logic Pro > Preferences > Control Assignments > Learn Control for xxxxxx (Cmnd-L) 3. Click on "Learn Mode" to highlight it. 4. Press the desired button or move the desired knob on your MIDI controller to the extremes. 5. Close the Controller Assignment window and it should work now! --- Let me know if the above works for you here, but I think your second question would do better in a new thread [regarding the collecting, processing and storing audio]. Could you explain in more detail with an example what you envisage happens in the new thread please.... although... not collecting audio... but touch tracks comes to mind... Cheers :-) Rounik
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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi! So I'm trying your suggestions. When I click Learn mode, I then press the desired button on my control surface. Pressing it toggles between values of 0 and 127, that is, I believe, MIDI ON and OFF messages? In any case, when I close the dialog and then try to trigger the bypass of a noise gate with my control surface, it doesn't work. I'm assuming this is because bypass buttons cannot be controlled? Thanks for your help! Steve K
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi Steve, That's funny. I'm now having the same issue! I'm sure I've been able to assign a controller to bypass a plug-in in the past... The Bypass label appears automatically in the Learn Assignments window, so I'm 99% sure it can be controlled!! The Learn Assignment function can require you to move the knob or press the button a few times before Logic recognises it. However, I've just been learning other MIDI controls on my Oxygen 8 to mute, various plug-in parameters and channel strip functions without a problem... so I agree, the bypass function is not happening for me either :( What control surface are you using? ok. So, I opened a new project and randomly I was able to bypass the second plug-in on a channel strip without setting it up again in the Learn Assignments window... I'll keep looking into this. Rounik
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  • SJKukla
    Posts: 52
    Joined: May 31st, 2007, 03:25
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Hi, Man, I'd just typed out this killer long post on some discoveries I'd made using the Assign Controllers dialog, but I lost it... I just picked up an Evolution U-Control 33, and I really, really dig it. No luck on the bypass bit, but it would be possible to use Latch Automation and assign it to the Insert Bypass... then one could simply hit play and manually press the Bypass button on the plug... It'd totally be cool to do it from a CS, though... An observation about assigning controllers, particularly when you want to assign a 'button' as an ON/OFF toggle... From playing around with it for, oh, maybe 2 hours, I've found that using a button is not as straight-forward as one might think. Take MUTE triggering, for instance... I assumed that once I assigned the MUTE parameter to a button, I could press that button and expect it to operate as an ON/OFF toggle. Not so. I was surprised to find that I had to press the button TWICE to get it to toggle. I did find a solution, though. Here's the deal: When you first use Cmd+L to assign a controller, select the expert view. The section to focus on is the input message section. MIDI Input is the controller doing the triggering. Value Change is the way Logic handles the change of values provided, and then beneath that, you have a read-out of what that means in your control surface. (I think). So, when I pressed my button to assign MUTE to it, I got the following: Value Change: B0 14 00 Read-out: Control Change Ch 1, 20, 00 Now, this is just speculation, given the little I know about my Control Surface, but... I'm assuming B0 is a code for Control Change. I know the "20" in the read-out corresponds to the Control Surface's ID for the button I pressed (Button 20), so for some reason, Logic uses 14... And then the 00 might correspond to the way the button interacts with the change. (IE, pressing it once or twice, or what have you). On a whim, I decided to see what happened if I pressed the button TWICE when assigning it, and I got this: Value Change: B0 14 Lo7 Read-out: Control Change Ch 1, 20, Lo7 Now I have no idea what Lo7 refers to, BUT... it's this setting which enables a toggle to work correctly. That is to say, now, when I use Latch Automation, I can automate Muting and Un-muting a track with a button from my Control Surface. Pretty cool. Hope this helps, and if anybody knows a more concrete reasoning behind those codes and what they mean, I'd love to hear it! Rounik, let me know if you get that Bypass bit figured! Hmm... wouldn't it be cool if you call up preset channel strips with the press of a button? That way, you could switch from one group of plugs to another on the same instrument.... Steve K
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Automating and "Triggering" Plugins/Effects?
    Wow - thanks for re-typing all that! The Bypass plug-in should work fine... But, it's strange that we both have run into this issue. Yes, you can bypass using Latch or touch Automation mode. Have you tried out the environment I uploaded which I linked to above? That enables a way to completely bypass all Channel strip inserts. [quote:16336]Hmm... wouldn't it be cool if you call up preset channel strips with the press of a button? That way, you could switch from one group of plugs to another on the same instrument....[/quote] Well, I have good news! You can! Logic, already has key commands set up to switch from one channel strip setting to another forwards and backwards... If you open the Key Commands window, you can assign a MIDI Controller button to both commands... I know... but it only goes backwards and forwards right... well, you can save the desired channel strip settings in a new folder and arrange the various settings to make it easier to switch between the ones you want to. Cheers! Rounik
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