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  • tyronehowe
    Posts: 3
    Joined: Sep 14th, 2007, 04:32
    Questions about TNT2 and multi-timbral VIs
    Hi All I was very interested to see September and October's TNT2 on Multi-Timbral VI usage. This area has been one of my biggest problems ever since I started to use Logic. But am I missing something here? Steve H's solutions are brilliant. Easy to follow and understand. But ... am I the only one that thinks this is a LOT of work just to be able to use faders/pans with multi-timbrals VIs? Look - I don't want to start any DAW war here, but I loaded both Kontakt 3 and Stylus RMX into Digital Performer to see how that worked. And guess what, it all worked perfectly right away. No need for complex routing of 16 transformers in the environment, it just worked. Now, obviously this isn't Steve H's fault and I'm sure his solution is the best there is, but what is wrong with Logic? Steve H says that all multi-timbral VIs behave differently but DP seems to understand how to use them automatically. I haven't yet tried EastWest Play, but my guess is it will be fine too. To me, it makes Logic look either old-fashioned or just poorly programmed because obviously it IS possible for a DAW to automatically understand how to natively treat a multi-timbral VI (DP for example). Ok second point - is it possible to load and save all these wonderful Environment things that Steve H creates? I know that I COULD build a template that has them all in - but that doesn't really help. For example, one project might have 1 RMX and 2 Kontakt 3s, another project may have 1 Kontakt 3 and a Play. I cannot build a template that could accommodate all possibilities. I'm guessing the answer will be no, which means I will have to keep rebuilding the environment things that Steve H has taught us each time I want to use a multi-timbral VI? Is that really what people do? I'd love to know. Thanks Tyrone Howe
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  • kayleclements
    Posts: 55
    Joined: Jul 22nd, 2006, 06:55
    Re: Questions about TNT2 and multi-timbral VIs
    I just watched the videos, and I am no expert, but this is what I think Steve said. You can copy and paste the macros between projects. So, I plan on setting up a template with each of the macros I need in it and start each song from that template. Then, if I need more macros, I can simple copy and paste them as needed. I am not sure about the other question regarding DP - maybe some else can chime in, and also say if I am correct in my interpretations of Steve's lessons.
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  • tyronehowe
    Posts: 3
    Joined: Sep 14th, 2007, 04:32
    Re: Questions about TNT2 and multi-timbral VIs
    Hello KC Thanks - yes I remember Steve H saying that about copying from project to project as well. But nonetheless, you still have to create the tracks, create the multi-instrument then copy across the environment from a "master" template and then wire it all up. Phew! My DP comments were made just to show that at least one other DAW does all this for you automatically. I don't think it's unreasonable of us to think that Logic should do it automatically as well if others DAWs can. I get the impression that Logic was never really made for multi-timbrality and never updated for it properly. Even the multi-instrument that Steve H uses in his videos was originally intended for external multi-channel synths (Steve H said). I know it sounds like a whining, and ... well I am, a bit :) All of that wonderful work Steve H put in seems like something that Logic should do anyway. If you reading Steve H - thanks for the videos. I can honestly say I've never used so many transformers before in my life!
    Reply
  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: Questions about TNT2 and multi-timbral VIs
    Thanks for your compliments!! I keep a template that I only use as a source for all my environmental needs. And then it's drag and drop time! By the way I totally agree with you regarding Logic being stuck in the past with this stuff. Let's hope that they figure out a better way. Until then, you're "stuck" with me!
    Reply
  • Robg
    Posts: 4
    Joined: Jul 27th, 2006, 04:44
    Re: Questions about TNT2 and multi-timbral VIs
    It's taken me a while to get round to fully watching the tutorial on Stylus Automation. The tutorial presents a very elegant solution, and it's a great exercise to learn more about the power of the environment, but it seems to me that there are other ways of accessing independent automation of soft instrument parameters. For example, - one quick and easy method would be to select the appropriate parameter to control from the drop down window in the automation lane. This could be useful if you just want to control just a couple of parameters (say) but it has the disadvantage that the parameter can only be controlled by drawing in the automation on the arrange page, and it becomes difficult to manage if you have lots of channels/control parameters. - as I understand it, another way which seems to be relatively quick and easy would be to create auxiliary tracks (by pressing the "plus" button on the RMX channel strip in the mixer view) and assigning each of these aux tracks to the correct midi channel. The volume and pan for each midi track can be individually controlled by a control surface or the knobs/sliders in the mixer or RMX plug-in screen (although the RMX controls do not move when the fader or pan controls are changed via connected hardware or other software screens). I agree that once you've set up a template based on Steve H's tutorial, the whole thing can be quick and easy, but for those who find Steve H's method too complex, what are its advantages over creating aux tracks as described above? robg
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  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: Questions about TNT2 and multi-timbral VIs
    [quote:1320] I agree that once you've set up a template based on Steve H's tutorial, the whole thing can be quick and easy, but for those who find Steve H's method too complex, what are its advantages over creating aux tracks as described above? robg[/quote] It all depends upon how you want to use the VI. A lot of the time, I want to have all of the VI's internal midi channels routed to the same output with the ability to mix between them. For instance, I'll use a single instance of a VI to produce all of the the sounds a violin can produce: Legato, Pizzicato, Col Legno, Marcato etc. And, I'll want to have ALL of those instances appear on one channel of Logic for mixing, compression, EQ and panning. Also, I'll send then all to the same aux FX. Now multiply this times 5 because I'll do this for each section of the orchestral strings. (Are you counting the massive amount of aux channels you'd need to do it the other way) Now, with my environment settings as demonstrated in the TNT, I can internally mix the relative levels of all of those articulations, AND, automate them if necessary while at the same time knowing that when it comes to the "MIX" they will all appear at one channel strip which gives me the kind of section control I need. Add a few more transformers and switches and soon you can auto-pan, create crossfades between voices, modulate each voices filter, attack, decay and other FXs... the list goes on and on. Once this somewhat complex environment is created and tweaked I include it in a template for extreme easy setup for future projects. Invent the wheel once and it'll spin forever! Though "other" DAWs are easier to set up, none of them offer Logic's flexibility in creating your own personalized setups, and, for me, this gives me a creative edge over the stock, garden variety way that most "non TNTers" work. And in this competitive field any edge you get helps. More important though, is the simple fact, that it is FUN!!
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