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  • brezerkr
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Nov 15th, 2007, 10:42
    mastering tutorial,cant trust my ears
    I just started the new mastering tool kit tutorial,and found i use the exact set up as steve(ensemble), i have terrible ears from years of side fills(drummer) so being advised to trust my ears is funny....i trust my eyes more often and find that i back off the ensemble when recording drum tracks because the red clip lights on the front panel pop on so consistantly, Why? clearly the input channel has headroom to spare, and as this tutorial points out; the logic input meter is the final say on the wave form produced, that it(wave form) is not clipping and distorting,and yet the front panel of the ensemble keeps flashing me like a traffic light.. gets under my skin.....i find it immpossible to disguise this rant as a question, feel free to ignore me
    Reply
  • Cajypiu
    Posts: 400
    Joined: Oct 11th, 2006, 09:48
    Re: mastering tutorial,cant trust my ears
    Hi Brezerkr, I've got an ensemble too and I'm trying to replicate your scenario. Are you saying that the input meters are clipping at the pre amp stage and yet they appear to be under 0dBFS in Logic? Are you running any plug ins? What does Maestro say your headroom is? When you are recording live instruments @ 24bit, you can afford to have the meters peak at -12db ish so that when you do get to work on the recorded signal, you have plenty of headroom left to EQ boost and mangle away with no signal to noise ratio lost. Cheers, j
    Reply
  • brezerkr
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Nov 15th, 2007, 10:42
    Re: mastering tutorial,cant trust my ears
    yes, the lights on the front panel of the ensemble, when observed during performance blink red, suggesting clip, on every snare hit(i record drums with 2 over heads and a kick) the wave form in the region is well within normal range and produces no distortion, i have learned to ignore the read out lights on ensemble, the same input, viewed through maestro's screen, shows the same as the input channel on logic, at or less than 0db. Perhaps my clip lights are sensitive, a few lights on the panel have stopped working also, however the machine has no problem creating great sounding tracks, so im not stressing too badly ....out of curiosity, what is your opinion of ensembles soft limit?...how often do you use it?, do you feel it squashes the dynamic range of drum tracks?
    Reply
  • Cajypiu
    Posts: 400
    Joined: Oct 11th, 2006, 09:48
    Re: mastering tutorial,cant trust my ears
    Kia Ora, in a nutshell, I'd say that it is clipping. In Steve H's Mastering toolkit, he explains where the various stages of distortion can come from. The mic can be overloaded, the pre-amp can be overloaded, the convertors can be overloaded (generally linked to the pre-amp/ sound card interface unless you are using separate convertors) and then you can overload channels within logic. Digital meters such as Maestro and Logic won't read above 0db. Instead they will flash a light above the channel. If a digital signal goes above 0db, the meter won't display numbers greater than 0db, it will just clip and by clipping that generally means square waving abruptly and when that happens, you hear it as distortion. So to clarify, if Maestro's meter is reading 0db, unless you have the amplification perfect, it will be clipping. There is the notion of intersample peaking which can be up to 6db higher than the reading displayed as well, but that's another kettle of fish. As a rule of thumb, you really don't want Maestro/ Logic's meters to be reading over -6db at a maximum.... -10 or -12db is the norm when you are recording. This allows headroom for some hits to be louder than others and other performance/ recording variances. There is no need to get it near to 0db. When you mix the tracks together that's when you can get the output to be nearer 0db if it is loudness you require. The soft limit feature is pretty good. I don't tend to have it on myself as I try to leave plenty of headroom and then work on the sound I have once recorded.
    Reply
  • brezerkr
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Nov 15th, 2007, 10:42
    Re: mastering tutorial,cant trust my ears
    "i really learned somthing today" im glad i posted, im not shittin ya when i describe myself as a "gorrilla with a baseball bat" esp. where technology is concerned. im still stuck in a world of tape mentality where if my signal is input too low, the hiss will rise from hell and eat my tracks, i know, i know, that was forever ago, but some of us just dont transition well. please know how much i appreciate what i learned just now, how usefull it is to me, and how thankful i am for the time you folks put into this forum.....
    Reply
  • Cajypiu
    Posts: 400
    Joined: Oct 11th, 2006, 09:48
    Re: mastering tutorial,cant trust my ears
    Sweet as mate :)
    Reply
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