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  • Alex Commins
    Posts: 30
    Joined: May 15th, 2008, 06:55
    Why does Crossfade mute the next region??
    I wrote before with this question, but thought the problem may have been that I was working with a flattened and merged take folder. But that's not the case because it's happening in another project - and this time on just an audio track (recorded live guitar) which is not a take folder or a flattened and merged take folder. Just one pass of the guitar. Here's an example: I cut a region (Region #A) and copy and paste it (let's call the pasted-in copy #B) to an earlier point on the track (i.e., to the left of #A) so that it plays in this order: original part of track, then #B (the pasted-in copy), then some of the original track again, and then #A (the region I originally cut and copied) -- the point being that after playing the pasted-in copy it then plays (or should play, as you'll see below) some of the original track, and then goes into #A (which of course is the original track, just the region I cut out of it). -- WHEW!!! BTW, what happens (explained below) happens whether I paste the copy (#B) using either overlap or no overlap. IF I crossfade into the pasted-in region #B then the song will play from the left of #B (from the beginning of the song and over the crossfade and into #B) and plays #B (the pasted-in copy). BUT, and here's the question, when it leaves #B and goes back into the original section following it, that section (and only that section) is muted. Then as it goes into region #A (the region I originally cut to copy) it starts playing again. It mutes the section which comes after the region which has the crossfade but then starts playing again when it leaves that section and goes into a new region. AND IT ONLY DOES THIS IF I DO A CROSSFADE INTO THE PASTED IN REGION. IF I REMOVE THE CROSSFADE AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT REGION (#B), THEN IT DOES NOT MUTE THE SECTION WHICH FOLLOWS IT. IT IS THE CROSSFADE INTO THE REGION WHICH APPARENTLY IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM. Why does it mute the part of the song which follows the pasted in region?? I have looked through everything, the fade parameters in in inspector and the crossfade part of the Preferences menu and don't see the problem (though the crossfade section of the audio section in the preferences menu deals with take and merge comping). WHAT AM I MISSING????????
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Hi Alex have you tried deleting all fade files in the project? Does this happen in every project including new projects? Please remind me of the versions of your Mac (hardware and software). Thanks Rounik
    Reply
  • Alex Commins
    Posts: 30
    Joined: May 15th, 2008, 06:55
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Rounik - my belief is that either there is a glitch in Logic 9 or that I have a bad version (upgrade from Logic 8 Studio - though I have questions that it was indeed an upgrade version). I tested this problem by taking a one track project (see #1 below) that I created in Logic 9 today to a friend of mine who still has Logic 8. The upshot is that after I opened my project (which I created in Logic 9) into his Logic 8, it played fine - no muting - (even though when I went to open it in Logic 8 it gave a message that this project was created in a later version, it still opened it). The crossfaded region ( the pasted-in region and the crossfade into it-- see below) was already there when I opened it, because I had created it in Logic 9, but nothing was muted (as was not the case in my Logic 9). I now feel that the problem is in Logic 9 (or in either my version or my installation of Logic 9 (I explain later)). Furthermore, I think the problem occurs only once there is a copied (pasted-in) region -- no problems if there is just an original cut region in its original location. Here's what I did: 1. First: I created a new project and played one minute of live guitar into one track only. And only one pass (not a take folder). Very simple short audio track. 2. I cut a region from toward the end of the track. Before I did anything with that region, just to test the crossfade function before I did any copying and pasting, I created crossfades at BOTH the left and right sides of the region. No problems -- I could create a crossfade on each side of that region by dragging from either within that region out, or from outside of it (either side) and into it. Played fine -- no regions were muted. However, once I have pasted in a copy of the cut region ( a bit to the left of the cut region so that there is original track in between them), the first thing that happens is I can no longer create crossfades into (or from within) the section which is in between the two regions (the middle section). That section suddenly just won't take any part of a fade. However, all regions do play (nothing is muted). Then, once I add a crossfade into the left side of the pasted-in copy (it will crossfade the left side of the pasted-in copy), then the middle section also gets muted (already wouldn't take any part of a fade). It plays the pasted-in region, then mutes the middle section, and then starts playing again as it enters the original region. I forgot to test the crossfades when I opened it in Logic 8 today, but there certainly was no muting problem when opened in Logic 8. QUESTIONS ON MY UPGRADE INSTALLATION: This was weird to me. Now, the Logic 9 box I have is labeled "Upgrade from Logic Studio or Logic Pro." The instructions say that if the installation is an upgrade, then (at a certain screen) I will be asked to enter the serial number of the previous version (Logic Express 7 or Higher -- and I had Logic Studio 8). But this screen never appeared-- it just suddenly started installing the program. And it took a few hours (which does not seem like an upgrade) - and installed lots of stuff!!!. Furthermore, in my Applications folder I now have an App labeled Logic Pro 8 (362MB) with a 2008 date, and an App above it labeled just Logic Pro (762 MB from the date I installed Logic 9). However, when I open Logic Pro from the same Logic icon in the dock I have always used, I do get the Logic 9 program. IF I NEED TO UNINSTALL BOTH VERSIONS OF LOGIC, PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO UNINSTALL A PROGRAM (BOTH OF THEM). THEN, I GATHER I WILL HAVE TO RE-INSTALL FIRST LOGIC STUDIO 8 AND THEN THE UPGRADE TO LOGIC 9, ASSUMING IT IS AN UPGRADE (this will only take me a few days!! ), and I might still have the same problem if it's a Logic 9 problem. Obviously, if it is, I would rather wait for a program patch to download. Please let me know if you encounter this problem. If not, I gather I should uninstall and reinstall??? (ugh!) (if my Logic 9 is a full version of Logic Studio (and not an upgrade), I would just install it I am so frustrated with this!!!!!!!. (I will make a new backup of my channel strip etc settings I have saved before uninstalling). If this is a glitch in the program, please notify Apple and let me know so before I uninstall and re-install (ugh!) - I'd much prefer downloading a software update - duh! I have OS X 10.6.1 (snow leopard) -- but I had the Logic 9 problem before I upgraded to Snow Leopard BTW, great being able to watch any tutorial from your site (I joined). Peace - Alex
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Hi Alex, Firstly, the Logic Studio Upgrade version discs/box sounds absolutely fine and behaves as I would expect. The upgrade version does contain the complete version of Logic 9! You will not need to enter an updated serial if installing on the same system as Logic 8 as Logic will automatically read the serial no. on your Mac. It's very unusual that a 'bad disc' could cause an issue like this. This crossfade issue DOES NOT sound like it is connected to a disk or install issue. This sounds like a System or Operator issue. I have heard of this before. So please do answer my questions: 1. Are you using the crossfade tool (with the mouse) or the Region Inspector to create fades? 2. Are the regions adjoining or is there a gap between them? 3. Is the 'middle region' shown as being muted (greyed out)? 4. Please List your Mac, Audio Hardware, OS Version and other significant details. 5. Have you tried to delete the fade files and re-create the crossfade? Options>Audio>Delete all fade files... 6. Can you be specific as to exactly how you are creating copies of the region? e.g. key commands/menu commands. 7. When the playhead moves over the 'muted region' does the level meter on it's channel strip move at all? 8. Don't uninstall and re-install just yet, it might make no difference whatsoever... but do export your key commands and quit Logic & then move the following file to your desktop for safe keeping to reset Logic's preferences: User folder/Library/Preferences/ com.apple.logic.pro.plist Now restart Logic. Please do let me know the answers to the above to help us isolate the issue if possible. Thanks Rounik
    Reply
  • Alex Commins
    Posts: 30
    Joined: May 15th, 2008, 06:55
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Rounik - you will find this very interesting (the crossfade works ONLY IN ONE Instance - follow this): 1. I always use Command C Command V to copy and paste -- that way I do not have to drag across a long distance and I know the paste is exactly where I want. Also, because I record my guitar on two tracks and then fatten both of em, I can group all four, cut the region on all four with one cut , use the Command C/V, and that way I can copy and paste all four regions at once. 2. But, this morning, I decided to use the Option key to copy the region and then drag and let go of the mouse to paste it. If I do this, the crossfade works - BUT ONLY IN ONE INSTANCE (sort of). It must be in no overlap (which may be the only way crossfades work - though I have been trying it both overlap and no overlap). If I do this, then I can create a crossfade on the pasted in region on both sides of the region and all regions play -- no muting at all. ALSO - IMPORTANT, when I create the crossfade on the copied region, the vertical lines separating that region remain visible so I can see the region division (both sides) over which to drag the crossfade tool, as I am actually creating the crossfade. In other words, it works fine if I use Option click to copy and paste - but again only in "no overlap." 3. BUT - DIG THIS --I undid the above operation and immediately did the exact same thing (copying the same region to the same place) but this time using the Command C Command V commands (still in "no overlap") as I usually do, and it will NOT work. When I try to crossfade the copied region, as soon as I try to use (click) the crossfade tool the vertical region boundaries disappear (unlike above), and once I have created a crossfade into the region (I have to put the playhead at the left side of the region to know where it begins because the boundaries disappear in this case as I try to create the crossfade, but it does create one), then it mutes the following section as I've been describing. IT WILL NOT WORK USING THE COMMAND C /V OPERATIONS. 4. If I am in "overlap," then it will not work regardless of whether I use the Command C/V or the Option click (but maybe crossfades don't work in overlap, is that right?). All the problems I have been mentioning occur in "overlap." 5. Also, I noted this this morning: if I select "X Fade" in the drag options and then use Option click to copy and paste the region, it does put a crossfade within the pasted-in region, BUT, it still mutes the region which follows it. However, if I use Command C/V (with "X Fade" selected in the drag mode), then it does not even put the crossfade within the pasted-in region. Clearly, Command C/V does not work. now - i've pasted in your questions you just asked and writing my answers: 1. Are you using the crossfade tool (with the mouse) or the Region Inspector to create fades? Both - and it does not work right with either (if I use Command C/V or the Inspector) 2. Are the regions adjoining or is there a gap between them? THERE IS NO GAP BETWEEN THEM 3. Is the 'middle region' shown as being muted (greyed out)? IT DOES NOT SHOW AS MUTED OR GREYED OUT -- IT LOOKS NORMAL 4. Please List your Mac, Audio Hardware, OS Version and other significant details. OS X 10.6.1. USE A DUET, IMac 5. Have you tried to delete the fade files and re-create the crossfade? Options>Audio>Delete all fade files... JUST TRIED IT - HAS NO EFFECT ON THE PROBLEM 6. Can you be specific as to exactly how you are creating copies of the region? e.g. key commands/menu commands. I EXPLAINED THIS IN THE FIRST PART OF THIS EMAIL 7. When the playhead moves over the 'muted region' does the level meter on it's channel strip move at all? THE LEVEL METERS FOR BOTH THE TRACK AND THE OUTPUT CHANNEL GO BLANK - THEY ARE AT 0 AND DO NOT MOVE (TOTALLY MUTE) NOW YOU MADE THE SUGGESTION BELOW WHICH I HAVE NOT DONE YET - BUT WILL DO. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND ONE THING BEFORE I DO IT AND WHAT TO LOOK FOR. BE SURE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION ABOUT MOVING THE FILE,AND THEN I WILL DO THIS. WHEN YOU SAY "MOVE" THE FILE: User folder/Library/Preferences/ com.apple.logic.pro.plist TO THE DESKTOP, YOU MEAN "MOVE" NOT "COPY" -- IN OTHER WORDS, GET IT OUT OF LOGIC???? IF SO, WILL LOGIC RE-MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY WHEN I RESTART LOGIC, OR WILL I HAVE TO MOVE IT BACK INTO THAT FOLDER? ALSO, I GUESS I NEED TO MAKE SURE I KNOW WHAT ALL MY PREFERENCES WERE SET TO BEFORE I DO THIS, RIGHT?? I HAVE ALREADY EXPORTED MY KEY COMMANDS, BUT DIDN'T WANT TO FINISH WHAT YOU SAID TO DO UNTIL I FULLY UNDERSTOOD ABOUT "MOVING" THE FILE I JSUT MENTIONED. HERE'S SHAT YOU SAID TO DO: but do export your key commands and quit Logic & then move the following file to your desktop for safe keeping to reset Logic's preferences: User folder/Library/Preferences/ com.apple.logic.pro.plist Let me know about "moving" that file and I will do it and then get back with you. Rounik - I cannot thank you enough, and MacProVideo (which I have recommended to numerous others). I just cannot tell you how much I have learned from "y'all." peace -alex
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Hi Alex, Wow. This is one bizarre issue! I'm not testing Logic on 10.6.1 yet, using my version on 10.5.8... crossfading working here regardles of Drag mode and space between regions. Also regardless of the method of both copy and pasting regions and applying the crossfade. I'm glad you've discovered some kind of a workaround, albeit far from ideal, at least it's something. OK one thing to try before we talk about trashing preferences... Is there any automation data (track or Hyperdraw) connected to the region which is muted? If you select the 'muted' region and press 'M' on your keyboard once and then again maybe does it playback at all? We've tried quite a few troubleshooting techniques already... so over to trashing prefs. Sometimes an applications Preferences file can become corrupted... When you want to reset Logic's Global preferences (not Project ones) then you need to either delete the file prefs file or move it to the desktop. I recommend moving it (NOT COPYING it) as you can always move it back to the original location if needed. Once the preference file is moved from the preferences folder, the next time as application launches (in this case Logic) a new preferences file will be created, but of course it will not contain your custom key commands or other settings. In most cases this isn't an issue as these settings. Just remember to quit the app (Logic) and then move the preferences file. Let me know how you get on & thanks for the kind words! Rounik
    Reply
  • Alex Commins
    Posts: 30
    Joined: May 15th, 2008, 06:55
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Rounik - the truth is - I want to trash the whole system -- the program is now worthless. I have created two major projects in Logic 9 (along with the little test audio track project) - they all have the same problem. -- Tonight I decided to go the the first project (the first one I wrote about a few weeks ago with this issue - and said, well, I'll undo the paste (which was done with Command C/V) and re-copy and paste using "option click" -- but guess what, the same issue. For whatever reason, on the little test audio file I recorded and that I wrote about earlier today, the option click worked -- but not on this. This is not good - these two major projects are really done and would go on my cd, but I can't crossfade on them. I could uninstall Logic and re-install just Logic 8, which is really what I want to do, because whatever Logic I have now is worthless, but then these two projects in Logic 9 I can't use. BTW, it's not Snow Leopard -- because the first time I wrote about this problem was Aug 30 (of course, I had already installed Logic 9 at that point), but I didn't buy Snow Leopard until Sept 8 (I checked). I'm IRATE (and devastated!!) - I don't see any choice but to uninstall both Logics -- the whole Logic Studio (8 and 9) on my computer and re-install all the way up to Logic 9. A friend of mine was going to lay down a track (to one of my new Logic 9 projects) at his place on his Logic, but he has Logic 8, so he can't use my project file (because it was created in Logic 9), and he was going to upgrade to 9, but doesn't want to do it now. I wish I had never upgraded to Logic 9. I have no choice but to uninstall and re-install all the way up to Logic Studio 9 - so, please tell me how to do this -- I guess I have to uninstall all the programs in Logic Studio (and in both Logic 8 and Logic 9) and re-install all of them. I don't see anything in any of my Logic stuff on how to uninstall it. How do I do all this uninstalling ?????? (Since it's Logic Studio upgrade and since I have already upgraded all the programs in Logic Studio 8 to 9, then I think in the long run I should uninstall all the Logic Studio Programs and start the WHOLE thing again from ground zero. I think all the programs are: Logic Pro, there is something I see called Logic Node, then Soundtrack Pro, Main Stage, and Waveburner -- am I right??? Maybe I should just buy a new iMac (and install all my programs new) -- (OH, WHEN I GET LOGIC 8 RE-INSTALLED I WILL CALL UP A PROJECT I CREATED IN LOGIC 8 AND MAKE SURE THE CROSSFADE FUNCTION WORKS FINE BEFORE I INSTALL THE LOGIC 9 UPGRADE. Unfortunately, I have to install Logic 9 because I've already created projects in it that I want to use (and I love the Notes section in Logic 9). I don't see any choice - ??? I won't bother you any more about this - but do tell me how to uninstall the programs thanks again - alex
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Hi Alex, I hear your frustration, and I can only empathise with your situation... There is one workaround I've come across: Zoom in on the 'muted region' drag it back and forth a little and then the sound returns and is apparently OK. I don't know if this works in Logic 9. --- So, did trashing Logic's preferences not work? If you did not try it, please do give it a shot. Many, many issues have been solved by performing this simple troubleshooting step. There's a good chance your projects created in Logic 9 will open in Logic 8, despite a little warning message that pops up when attempting to do so. So aside from a little tweaking here and there you should be good to load your current Logic 9 projects into Logic 8 which is still on your system right? --- Rather than transfer the 2 major projects from one system setup to another, it might be time efficient to use track automation instead. Using the marquee tool to select an area, a key command to create 2 nodes on each border and the mouse to drag the automation line and set the curve, can be surprisingly quick... I know this is not ideal, but considering you are mid-project I would always recommend waiting until after a project is completed before changing OS and Logic version. There are ways to uninstall Logic, bu again make sure you try deleting preferences first and trying the workaround I mentioned at the beginning of my post. If you have a cloned backup of your system before you installed Logic 9 / SL then reverting back to Logic 8 and Leopard will be quite straight forward. Let me know. Thanks Rounik
    Reply
  • Alex Commins
    Posts: 30
    Joined: May 15th, 2008, 06:55
    Removing Prefs did not work - how 2 uninstall??
    Rounik - I tried removing the prefs and restarting but it did not fix anything. I tried all the fades again today -- I promise you I am not doing anything weird -- it's simple -- either option click drag a copy of a region or Command C/V it. Then add a crossfade - easy -- but it won't work - all the problems I've sighted before (region line disappearing when you actually try to put int he fade, muting , etc). I will ask my Mac person (great people who are Mac professionals who come out and help you with technical issues) who helps me with real technical issues if I have a clone as you mentioned. If so, I will try that, but if not, then I want to uninstall and re-install (or buy a full new version of Logic Studio 9) because - - - - There's no reason for me to have a program that doesn't work -- it's worthless, so at this point (assuming the clone doesn't work) I just want to uninstall all the Logic programs out of the computer, go buy a new full version of Logic Studio and install it (I hate to spend the money). I guess I go go through and reinstall my Logic 8, then download the Logic 8 updates (as I have always done), and then upgrade with my Logic 9 and see if it works before I go buy a new version. I don't trust anything I have. And this means uninstalling all of the Logic Studio programs So, how do I uninstall EVERYTHING ON MY COMPUTER RELATED TO ALL VERSIONS OF LOGIC STUDIO BTW, I JSUT NOW BACKED UP (COPIED TO MY BACKUP DRIVE) ALL OF MY CHANNEL STRIP SETTINGS, PLUG-IN SETTINGS, AND TEMPLATES ALSO, I GUESS, ONCE I HAVE LOGIC STUDIO 8 RE-INSTALLED AND WANT TO TEST IT (BEFORE UPGRADING AGAIN TO LOGIC 9), I WILL FIRST HAVE TO COPY IN THE CHANNELS STRIP ETC SETTINGS I JUST BACKED UP (I ASSUME THE FOLDER IN THE LIBRARY WHERE THEY GO WILL BE THERE FOR ME TO COPY THEM IN TO). I HAVE TO COPY THEM BACK IN BEFORE I GO TO OPEN ANY PROJECTS BECAUSE MANY OF THE PROJECTS USE THESE SETTINGS, SO THEY HAVE TO BE THERE FOR THE PROJECT TO ACCESS IT. BTW, ALL MY PROJECTS ARE ORIGINALLY PUT ON MY EXTERNAL GLYPH AND THEN I ALWAYS MAKE A SECOND BACKUP AS I KEEP TWEAKING THEM ON A SECOND BACKUP DRIVE (PASSPORT). One final thought - If Logic 8 has trouble reading a Logic 9 project, then I guess I can just copy the files (they are BWF) and let him import them into a new project on his Logic 8 -- then record his tracks and then make a copy of his track (BWF) and then me import it back into my Logic 9 (if I ever get it working) THANKS - ALEX
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Why does Crossfade mute the ne...
    Hi Alex, Sorry to hear the possible solutions don't work at all :( Just to clarify, if there is (which there seems to be) an issue with your setup and Logic, removing Logic and re-installing may help. Purchasing a brand new boxed copy will make NO difference at all!!! The issue is not with the Installation disks but something to do with your system. Yes, from Logic, you can export all your tracks and bring them in to a new project. I would recommend trying that now before uninstalling. But first make sure you have everything backed up and I'll let you know how to uninstall or perhaps even re-format your Mac and start from scratch. Best Rounik
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