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  • Xupibiu
    Posts: 5
    Joined: Oct 2nd, 2009, 05:31
    closed hi hat becomes open on playback
    Hey everybody- First post here. I asked this question in a different forum and didn't have much luck. Anyhow, here's my problem. I'll record a beat with a closed hi-hat sound, and sometimes when I play it back the hi-hat sound is open. It always happens when I have the piano roll editor open and start playback from somewhere other than the beginning of the track. It has happened in other circumstances as well (e.g., the other night I recorded a closed hi-hat track and the first 8 bars of playback were inexplicably an open hi-hat sound, then followed by a closed sound.) I'm sure it has something to do with Chasing, but I don't understand the concept behind that particularly well. In any event, my foot controller sends out CC4 data, and so I clicked and unclicked all the boxes in the control changes parameter in project settings>MIDI>Chase. Doesn't seem to have solved the problem, but then I'm pretty green when it comes to Logic. Hopefully it's something easy. I'm using Logic 8 (latest update), an intel iMac, with a TrapKat e-kit plugged into an M-audio midi interface, Duet audio interface. Thanks! And I love the tutorials, by the way. Just picked up the 101, but didn't see anything on Chase yet. Tom
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Hi Tom, Welcome to the forums :) The Chase function is not connected to this issue. Basically, if you start playback in your project after a sustained MIDI note has begun but before it reaches it's end, you will not hear that MIDI note. With Chase turned on, however, you will hear the MIDI note being triggered. In regards to your issue, which instrument are you using? EXS24, Ultrabeat? Which setting / Sampler Instrument is it? Have you checked in the Piano roll that the MIDI notes have been recorded to the correct pitch to trigger the closed hi-hat? Maybe you mistakenly selected the notes on that pitch and moved them? Cheers Rounik
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  • Xupibiu
    Posts: 5
    Joined: Oct 2nd, 2009, 05:31
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Thanks much for your reply, Rounik. I'll answer your questions as best I'm able. I'm using Superior Drummer 2.2 with an e-kit (w/ a hi hat foot controller). You probably know this, but the hi hat pedal sends CC4 data to tell Superior which of about 8 hi hat sounds to trigger, depending on how much I have the pedal depressed -- all the way down, I trigger the tight hi hat sounds, all the up, I trigger open hi hat sounds. As I look through the Event list in Logic, I see occasional controller values of 127, reflecting, I believe, the times when I have the pedal fully depressed. That's why I thought it might be a chase issue: when I start playback from the middle of a track, Logic doesn't seem to know that I have the hi hat pedal depressed. If I start at the beginning, it's usually ok. (Though sometimes I think I depress the pedal before I start recording, and Logic doesn't know that I've got my foot on the pedal. In these cases, it's recording as if I'm playing an open hi hat, and it doesn't matter where I start playback). I hope that makes sense! That's about the best I can explain it with my newbie skills. I'm almost positive I haven't mistakenly selected the notes and moved them, since my problem happens all the time. As for your question about whether the MIDI notes have been recorded to the correct pitch, hopefully from my post it's now clear that it's not as simple as that, since CC data from the pedal comes into the picture. Thanks, Tom
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Hi Tom, Thanks for explaining it - I think I understand better now... Could you post some screenshots of the Piano Roll, Event List and Arrange in a post? [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/forum/logic/logic-pro-express&id=15245[/url] A velocity of 127 is the highest amount and I would imagine the samples in Superior would be mapped so that lower velocities are closed and higher and (more) open... Thanks Rounik
    Reply
  • Xupibiu
    Posts: 5
    Joined: Oct 2nd, 2009, 05:31
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Rounik, I'm not at my workstation right now, but I'll send you those screenshots when I get home tonight. As for your observation about what a CC value of 127 would mean, I agree that it seems it should be an open hi hat sounds, but that's not actually the case. From the Superior manual: "Essentially the data sent by your E-drum module will be as a succession of values comprised between 0 and 127, where zero corresponds to fully open and the maximum theoretical value of 127 to fully closed (in fact, more than closed: a controller should ideally require a certain amount of physical pressure to reach this value). Let us repeat, a high value is when your foot is down and a low value when your foot is in the air - not the other way around!" In any event, thanks again for your help. Tom
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  • Xupibiu
    Posts: 5
    Joined: Oct 2nd, 2009, 05:31
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Here come the screenhots. Let's hope I did this right. The second screenshot is the beginning of the track. The first is where, in this particular recording, the Event list shows my hi hat foot stepping down and recording a value of 127, and the hi hat closes. But it only sounds closed if I start the playhead at the beginning. If I start it in the middle, the hi hat always sounds open. And just to clarify, when I recorded this drum track, I started the song with my foot on the pedal. It just doesn't sound that way for the first 14 bars, no matter where I start the playhead. Okay, so that took about 5 times to finally get the screenshots to work, so I hope you can actually see this. [img]http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3741/screenshot20091007at102.png[/img] [img]http://img202.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=screenshot20091007at102t.png[/img][img]http://img24.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=screenshot20091007at102.png[/img][img][URL=http://img5.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20091007at102.png/][IMG]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3741/screenshot20091007at102.th.png[/IMG][/URL][/img][img]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3741/screenshot20091007at102.png[/img]
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Hi Tom, Thanks for posting the pics. It's helpful. Shame I can't try this out in my studio (I don't use Superior). I've just re-read your post from October 6th. Excuse me if I misunderstand... So you press down this pedal on your kit and a sustained CC value: Ch 10, Num 4 is written at say 127 velocity... Then you are triggering notes which correspond to the HH, but while pressing down on the pedal (CC 4, Vel 127) the HH should be Open, and when depressed (CC 4, Vel 0 for example) any notes triggered should sound like a Closed HH? You can open Hyper Draw in the piano roll to see the CC 4 data in a graphical way. In that case your first observation makes complete sense: Catch mode should be enabled so Logic triggers the HH's with the correct CC 4 velocity data attached. Please let me know if this helps, or perhaps I've misunderstood? Thanks Rounik
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  • Xupibiu
    Posts: 5
    Joined: Oct 2nd, 2009, 05:31
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Aha, now I see where I'm confusing you. "Press" and "depress" in this instance have exactly the same meaning in English, even though they really shouldn't. (De-press should mean the opposite of press, but who knows why, it doesn't). So here's where we stand: if I press down on the pedal, velocity value 127, I get closed hi hat sounds. If I lift up on the pedal, velocity value 0, I get open sounds. So you think it is a chase issue, then? That's what I thought too, but I can't seem to find the right setting. Here's what I have checked in the Chase box: [img]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7413/screenshot20091008at111.png[/img] Basically, I've checked every box. What am I doing wrong? By the way, I know I've thanked you 5 times already, but let me do it again. I haven't been able to fix this problem, and I really appreciate you trying to figure it out with me. Tom
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on ...
    Hi Tom, Thanks! Sorry to ask for more... but these screenshots you're providing are sooo good I want more ;) Could you open the Piano Roll in a separate window and View the Hyper draw area for CC 4... A screenshot posted here would be great! btw, you certainly don't need all the boxes ticked for Chase Events, but I like the fact you're taking no chances! Thanks Rounik
    Reply
  • ScottLindsey
    Posts: 1
    Joined: Jul 25th, 2013, 06:32
    Re: closed hi hat becomes open on playback
    Did you ever get this resolved? I am having the same problem with the same setup. [quote=tmleith]Hey everybody- First post here. I asked this question in a different forum and didn't have much luck. Anyhow, here's my problem. I'll record a beat with a closed hi-hat sound, and sometimes when I play it back the hi-hat sound is open. It always happens when I have the piano roll editor open and start playback from somewhere other than the beginning of the track. It has happened in other circumstances as well (e.g., the other night I recorded a closed hi-hat track and the first 8 bars of playback were inexplicably an open hi-hat sound, then followed by a closed sound.) I'm sure it has something to do with Chasing, but I don't understand the concept behind that particularly well. In any event, my foot controller sends out CC4 data, and so I clicked and unclicked all the boxes in the control changes parameter in project settings>MIDI>Chase. Doesn't seem to have solved the problem, but then I'm pretty green when it comes to Logic. Hopefully it's something easy. I'm using Logic 8 (latest update), an intel iMac, with a TrapKat e-kit plugged into an M-audio midi interface, Duet audio interface. Thanks! And I love the tutorials, by the way. Just picked up the 101, but didn't see anything on Chase yet. Tom[/quote]
    Reply
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