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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    Hi Simon, I appreciate it must have taken you a long time to paste all those links in your post. Unfortunately, I have had to remove the post although I'm sure it included some useful info. Please appreciate that these forums are hosted by macProVideo.com and anyone posting spam or links to sites/videos offering similar training may have their posts removed. Posting one link to YouTube may have been overlooked and even recommending that Roy google this topic I might have let go, but the extent to which you posted 31 links is not cool. Can I recommend that if there are features or future tutorials that you wish to see created by macProVideo that you create a thread in the Suggested Training sub-forum: [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/forum/general/suggested-training[/url] which will be read and noted. We do our best to provide the highest quality video training available. If for whatever reason you are unhappy you can contact us via Support directly: [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/support/[/url] but we would ask you to respect our forums and not post links to alternative video training. Thanks for your understanding, Rounik
    Reply
  • Dan
    Posts: 3
    Joined: Sep 12th, 2009, 01:10
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    Hi Guys, I've just watched the first 7 chapters of this tutorial and I am reserving judgement on it, based on previous good experience of Mac Pro Video, until the final 33 parts are out (when is that by the way?). I have to say though, so far having Drum and Bass in the title is a little misleading - there's nothing really that specific to D&B in this tutorial other than the drum loop select for the arrangement. I have to agree with other posters that D&B has developed significantly over the past few years, and this video hasn't really touched on anything I'd expect to see in a D&B specific tutorial. I realise that producers keep their tricks pretty close to their chest and aren't about the tell the world their real secrets. But still, a few pointers to getting the sorts of sounds we hear in modern D&B and Dubstep would be nice. Really this so far has the same feel as the Logic 101 stuff from Martin Sitter, with nothing really that different content wise. Like I say - I'm holding judgement 'til I've seen the whole lot - hence no review yet. On a plus note, Nigel has a good voice and tempo; the tutorial pacing is great - just a few more D&B specific "confessions" would be good, and hopefully this is what we have to look forward to in part two. :) Cheers Dan
    Reply
  • Byperue
    Posts: 18
    Joined: Jan 7th, 2008, 08:31
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    Add me to the disappointed. The first thing that shocked me was relying solely on a Stylus RMX drum loop for the first seven sections. One of the most critical parts of DnB is beat creation, and sadly, I don't see any of it so far. No synth programming in what Logic already has. This seems ridiculously simple and retro, more like pop music as opposed to DnB. I also find it particularly annoying that the guy is constantly "going away" and then returning 10 minutes, 20 minutes or a few hours later, and voila, here's the next part, all ready to go. Why aren't we allowed to see the creative process? It seems like we are missing something everytime he "goes away." Very lightweight so far guys, especially compared to the other high quality videos yo produce. The rest of this series has A LOT of making up to do. Drew
    Reply
  • Simon
    Posts: 16
    Joined: Sep 16th, 2007, 08:54
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    It's strange that the general consensus of opinion seems to be that this tutorial is a total waste of time (and a sadly missed opportunity), yet it's still showing only four-star reviews. My one star review was never added for some strange reason. Has this happened to anyone else? Also the reviews that are shown seem rather fake. C'mon MacPro this isn't typical of your attitude towards your customers. P.S. every other vid I have purchased has been top notch (the Mastering Toolbox is excellent) but I really think you should dump this one and get someone who knows what they're doing to write it.
    Reply
  • vnl
    Posts: 14
    Joined: Jul 30th, 2009, 04:16
    405
    This one is about 'pop dnb' production, so sound wise it is disappointing for me but I believe there are lots of people who are making/listening to this. I purchased this one with 406 - Olav's workflow tricks. The difference is very clear - 406 is a 'typical' MPV tutorial where every second is filled with some tip/trick/workflow goodness. 405 is more of a classical 'how do I do things' tutorials you will find free with some music mags. I believe we have to compare it to Logic 403 Mixing R&B rather then anything else. In that respect this one is still slipping a little bit but I cannot say it is bad. It is just a little under par compared with other stuff here which is top notch. There is still 2 more hours going to be released so there is a space for improvement and I believe it will get better - I do expect some more on beats, making arrangements more complex and dnb specific mixing/mastering techniques.
    Reply
  • Byperue
    Posts: 18
    Joined: Jan 7th, 2008, 08:31
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    What I find disturbing is that I posted my review of this series so far on the product page nearly 10 days ago and it has not yet appeared. I was honest -- I thought the series was a huge disappointment so far. But nothing has been more disappointing than to not see my review there, but only these six five star reviews. That does not seem to be fair and honest with your users, MPV.
    Reply
  • Dan
    Posts: 3
    Joined: Sep 12th, 2009, 01:10
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    It would seem that posting less than glowing reviews is not acceptable to the producers of these tutorials. I guess this is fair enough, it's their site - but from now on I think I'll ignore the reviews! This obviously makes purchasing tutorials in the future less likely though, as I have no trusted opinion to go on. I'm yet to post a review as I've not yet watched (or received) the whole package - but it will be interesting to see if it appears on the site should I be less than happy with the product.
    Reply
  • Byperue
    Posts: 18
    Joined: Jan 7th, 2008, 08:31
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    This is just not being honest with current and potential users. It's as fake as many of the reviews on Amazon. And if you can't be honest about posting reviews on your products, how can anybody trust the products themselves? I really would have expected higher standards from MPV.
    Reply
  • JamieInNC
    Posts: 186
    Joined: Nov 16th, 2009, 01:04
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    I must agree that seeing the creative process during those "I'll be right back" exclusions would have been interesting, but they are far from necessary. Now, I've been a classical pianist for a very long time. I'm 36 and started playing when I was 4. Over the course of many years, and lots of training that ended in a terminal degree, I must say that the one thing I've learned about being a good overall musician is to try and limit the amount of influence you take from others. It's great to emulate some of the cool styles and beat structures you'd find in popular DnB tunes, but it's even better when your attempt to copy leads you to completely new and proprietary techniques that you alone are responsible for. Just for kicks and giggles, I Googled Dub-Step Wobble and Amen Break, and there were instant links leading to useful information. Sure, the Amen break is a wicked beat, which is why it has been used extensively in the style. My question is, since it has been used so extensively, why continue using it? Why not innovate with a completely new beat that is just as wicked? Open Ultrabeat and start messing with the arrange bars. Explore! As for the wobble, anyone with a bit of knowledge assumes correctly that an LFO is the first thing to try if that effect is what you want. Regarding my comments above, your search for that sound using the ES2 might lead you to a new sound or effect that you discover on accident! I have about 4-5 songs I'm working on at once, and I can safely say that most of the sounds and effects I use in them were found by MISTAKE when I was actually looking for something much different. The tutorial might not provide a step-by-step guide on how to create this or that sound or effect, but it shouldn't, in my honest opinion. What is SHOULD give you is practical knowledge about the instruments used and how controls effect sound waves themselves. This is why Steve's Mastering tutorial is so good. Is shows the how and why in a general sense so that YOU can learn to tailor them to your specific tastes and thereby develop your own voice. Looking way back into musical history, you will quickly find that many of the well-known composers are as such because they broke away from what was currently in style. They weren't afraid to deviate. It sounds like many of you are quite familiar with the style, sounds and terminology enough to be able to replicate what you hear from the masters. Try to obtain things on your own from the practical knowledge the tutorials give you about all of Logic's bells and whistles and I guarantee you'll discover fresh ideas that perhaps lead the style in a totally new direction. The minute you try to sound like someone else is the moment you lose your musical identity. Trust your own ideas and your ears and you'll be much better off. Jamie
    Reply
  • Dan
    Posts: 3
    Joined: Sep 12th, 2009, 01:10
    Re: Logic 405 Confessions of a Dru...
    Whilst I do agree with the last post, in that the spark of orignality and creativity usually comes from exploring, trying stuff out and genrally messing about yourself, I have to say that at some point a tutorial has to tell you things that have been done before by other people. By it's very nature a lesson is simply passing on knowledge from others. I think that for a tutorial to be called "Confessions of a Drum & Bass Producer" there is the assumption that currently used and known techniques in the D&B genre (as applied to Logic) will be divulged. Be this synthesis techniques using LFO, creative compression, building drum loops or whatever - at the end of the day these are pertinent to the style of music, whether or not it's creatively better to figure to out yourself, the fact is people purchase tutorials so they don't have to (in the first instance anyway). I also don't really see the positive in the fact that students can google to find out (for free) information that they were hoping to gain from the tutorial they have paid for. Having paid for a tutorial the expectation is that it will give a better and more thorough knowledge than can be found publicly on-line, and not require suplementing with YouTube videos. (As and aside, I've also found a number of useful YouTube tutorials for D&B with Logic ES2 and Ultrabeat) Anyway - here's looking to he next installment of the tutorial to kick ass and end this conversation. :)) Cheers Dan
    Reply
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