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  • JamieInNC
    Posts: 186
    Joined: Nov 16th, 2009, 01:04
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Ok, Rounik. After about 6 hours of work I have gotten very close to figuring out and achieving what you have sent this morning. I am able to get MIDI data from the track itself to ACTIVATE the mutes, but I still have the OFF position as unable to be triggered by MIDI notes when the note happens to be struck. I'm not sure at all what could be causing this. Now, I am able to click on my keyboard helper in the environment with the mouse. What happens there differs from what I would expect. If I click on a note and hold, the mute activates and stays as such. When I release the mouse it goes off. (Consequently, when I let go, there is a visible "off" indicator in all the monitors.) When I play the same note on my keyboard-controller, the mute activates and stays even after I let go. Replaying the note doesn't turn it off. When I click on the properties of the buttons you chose to activate the mutes, there is little in the inspector. My inspector has all the parameters one would expect of a fader, which leads me to believe you didn't use a fader in that sense. I've been working way too long on this for today and am sort of frustrated by my inability, so I'm going to take a break. I'm very close, but the problem I was having at the outset is still lingering. Hope there is a solution! (Yours still works perfectly, by the way, even with MIDI data in the track and an arpeggiator added to the front of the system...) Jamie
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Hi Jamie, Wow - only a month and a half into Logic and you're already mastering the Environment! Kudos to you. If notes are stuck then you'll need to use the Panic key command... to reset MIDI. So, it sounds like a note on/off issue, or something to do with the Environment keyboard object generating a note off event once you release the mouse button. Try setting the transformer velocity in Conditions area to Unequal 0. Feel free as well to use my Environment if it works... that's why I gave it to you ;-) ahh... the buttons to mute a fader in my environment are actually macros. Open em up and look inside. I borrowed the idea from another environment I found on the net a long long time ago :) Hope that helps, Rounik
    Reply
  • JamieInNC
    Posts: 186
    Joined: Nov 16th, 2009, 01:04
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Rounik, At long last, I have success with the system! For a while I didn't realize that those buttons were actually macros with lots of goodies hidden inside. I worked out the internal problems with my version and it works perfectly! When the system finishes its work it does leave whatever voices muted for the rest of the song, so if I ever want to return to full drums I'll have to work around this, but it is a lot easier to do that in the arrange window than it is to set up in the environment. Thanks so much for your help! I learned a lot by studying your example. A rough, yet worthwhile four days! Jamie
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Hi Jamie, Really glad you've got your version working perfectly! It's difficult for me to understand exactly what you did and what your challenges were without seeing the environment itself. You can add a crossfader or even a cross muter so that you have the Note Mute UB on one channel and a duplicate of it on another channel strip, except without any of the note mute stuff happening. Then using the cross fader/muter you can switch or blend between the two channels. Again you can assign this to a fader/key on your MIDI Controller. If you want to share the environment you created (it's always interesting to take a look at other people's environments ;) that would be great. If you want to keep it private I completely understand too. :) Rounik
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  • JamieInNC
    Posts: 186
    Joined: Nov 16th, 2009, 01:04
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Rounik, Yes, I'm glad too! I would be more than happy to provide the system, but I took the liberty of building mine using the guide you sent, which makes it almost a carbon copy. Of course, I went through the example and attempted to deduce why the objects were chosen for the purpose they all serve, and how the settings of each affect the path of information. I think I understand about 70% of what is in there, especially after building the thing myself and working through the process of assembling the objects. After the past few days, I think the best thing for me would be to have a much more detailed, task-oriented way of learning the objects in the environment, how the parameters affect the operation of those objects, and why certain objects would be better suited for certain tasks than others. Perhaps these things are nestled somewhere in the tutorials I haven't seen yet, or my sense of logic's environment hasn't had nearly enough time to absorb the practical use of these objects. I think I just need to experiment more with the objects and learn little by little what all the types of data represent. Once I get the song done I'll post it and accept some critique, and anyone who is interested can see the system I have assembled for the drum-randomization. I'm going to look into your ideas about the crossfaders next! Hopefully that will be less intense! JAmie
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Hi Jamie, Sounds good! I'd recommend going through both the TNT1 and 2 series - which you've already done / are doing? Also, concepts for the transform object in the Environment can be bolstered by knowledge of the transform window. The Steve H's Logic Masterclass tutorial is great for that. To have built an advanced environment having used Logic in only a month and a half deserves plenty of kudos! The crossfader concept is basically a fader cabled and a transformer... infact I just added it to my version of the Drum Mute player: [url]http://www.sendspace.com/file/kxw65n[/url] This should do the trick. You could even use a Vertical Fader with a built-in Mute button if you wanted too. I prefer to roll my own :) Rounik
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  • JamieInNC
    Posts: 186
    Joined: Nov 16th, 2009, 01:04
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Thanks Rounik! Certainly wouldn't have been able to do it as efficiently if I didn't have your help. I'm going to take a look at your crossfader in a moment, but before I do that, I was going to try building an additional system that would enable one strategically placed MIDI note in the arrange track with the ability to utilize the convenient "master on/off" switch you had with the little Apple icon. During work today, I was thinking about setting some conditions for the system to read c-2, perhaps, that would trigger the master to switch all the mutes on quickly and then off quickly so that I could return to the original drum beat as it were before the breakdown system I have in place now. I would simply NOT provide any MIDI data that would activate the muting system again, leaving the original to run it's course to the end. I'd just leave the rest of the "note to mute" track blank! I'm going to try it out...If I get it to work I'll get back to you as soon as I can! Jamie
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Hi Jamie, Thanks for your kind words! I enjoy creating environments so working on this one with you has been very enjoyable. In fact I was working on a similar style environment a while ago, but shelved it mid way through and promptly forgot all about it! Good idea to map a key to the Toggle All Mutes! Depending on the MIDI controller you have, might be nice to assign it to a button rather than a key? Have you checked out Mainstage yet? I think you'll like it very much - in that it allows you to build complex screen controls and easily map them to your MIDI hardware. Pity here's no delay lin, arpeggiator, transformer, etc... perhaps in Mainstage 3? :) Rounik
    Reply
  • JamieInNC
    Posts: 186
    Joined: Nov 16th, 2009, 01:04
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    [url]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2413/screenshot20091130at400.png[/url] Holy cow, it worked! I attached an image for you so you could see what I did, Rounik. Most of the environment is what you sent me, but I added the "Muting Off" and the "C2 Mute Switch" (just to the right of the cable switcher) to toggle the system off completely once it reaches a C2 note in my arrange track. The "Muting Off" transformer was set to "condition splitter" mode, so that if C2 was hit, it would head up to the "C2 Mute Switch" through the top cable. Anything else would head through the system. Now, the transform window is for the "C2 Mute Switch" itself, and I have a question or two about that. Honestly, I followed the same strategy that the "note-on" transformer has in the actual fader macro underneath each track by simply setting the conditions and operations the same way. I figured if it works for those buttons, it should work for the master too! I think I understand that the incoming data has to be transformed to meta-data since the fader reads that format as an actual command whenever C2 is hit, subsequently turning it ON if off and turning it OFF if on, correct? If this is the case, I'm not sure why the INPUT for the fader (in the inspector of my screenshot) can be set to "note-on." It seems like the fader might not accept/reply accordingly. Also, Data-byte 1 goes first, Data-byte 2 is read second...According to the manual, meta event 99 is the "Bang!" setting, and meta event 123 happens to be "select transformer map position." Could you please explain briefly why these two particular settings allow this operation to work as it does? Had I not looked at the internals of the fader macros, I wouldn't have intuitively chosen those two first. The ONLY thing that might have helped me is the explanation in the manual that says 99 causes the fader to resend it's current value. Perhaps that value for on/off is the key. In either case, the (123) figure within the Bang! explanation says, "increment with rollover," which confuses me even more. I'm pretty excited that it worked after only 20 minutes of labor, but I must admit it was observation and a little bit of luck that it worked so quickly for me. I knew how to set up the transformers, but setting the "operations' of the C2 switch would have held me up for a bit had I not been so observant toward the faders... Jamie
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Ultrabeat question...
    Hi Jamie, Fixing to Meta 1 99 123. Tricky to explain. Basically, Meta 99 is Bang! resend fader value. This will cause the next object (the actual mute button) to send it's value which is F.1 DB9. Right, and you're spot on the money here about DB2 =123. By enabling 123 (increment with rollover) it allows us to switch between Fader 1 9 value 0 and 1 or OFF and ON to toggle the mute button on the channel strip. Basically, we need to the fader to send out DB values (when triggered) of 0, then 1, then 0, then 1, etc. So because value 123 increments (adds a value of 1) and then rolls over (loops, starts from the beginning) it makes sense to use this model. I completely agree... It's hard to fathom. Even from reading the manuals it's easy to miss as, although the manuals are soooo much more approachable than a few years ago, the environment isn't explained as well as it could be. This mute switch macro is one that I downloaded a long time back... and like you, it helped me out a lot! :) Rounik
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