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  • yan
    Posts: 44
    Joined: Jul 11th, 2008, 12:15
    ES2 Vector timeline advice
    I'm right near the end of the excellent ES2 video by Steve H and have learnt everything on there, though not sure about one or two things. Here's the first one. With the vector time line, Could somebody explain this, I get it (I think) when Steve says that 'each time segment determines the length it takes to get to the next time segment setting not to the next point'. So if I set point 1 to a sine wave, point 2 to a square wave, and set the time in between to 2000ms. It takes 2000 ms to get to the next time segment (which is the one after point 2), not to point 2 itself, so does then mean it takes 1000ms to get to point 2 as its 'the apex of a bridge'. It doesn't mean it takes 2000ms to go from point 1 to point 2 If anybody could explain this time line in more words, I'd really appreciate that, as its so easy to visualize it going from point to point. I found the manual a bit sparse on it (295). Many thanks
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: ES2 Vector timeline advice
    HI Juno, So we're talking about video 35: Vector Timeline (03:18)? Basically, the Points themselves are located at the half-way mark... so from my understanding 2 is not at division 2 for example, but, 1.5, 3 is actually at 2.5... Time is then measured NOT between the points (as you rightly point out) but between the time values shown in ms... It is a little confusing at first! From the manual (p.96): With the exception of the first point, which is tied to the beginning of each played note, every point has a Time parameter. This parameter defines the period of time required for the position indicator to travel from the point that preceded it. The times are normally displayed in milliseconds (ms)." So, from my understanding, in answer to your question, remember you are not actually setting the "time inbetween the points"... rather you are setting the time inbetween the other time value... the points sit mid way in these time values... So, Point 1 = sine, point 2 = square... 1st time value = 2000ms means it takes 2000ms to reach the next time value, so in theory yes, 1000ms to reach point 2. If anyone has a different perception on how this works please chime in! I really think this could have been created in an easier way by the Logic developers ;-) Hope this helps somewhat, Rounik
    Reply
  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: ES2 Vector timeline advice
    Hi folks I just did a test with 4 points: point 1= sine point 2= digi point 3= silence (osc 3 turned off) point 4= digi again with 10 seconds (10000ms) as the time parameter inbetween each. I turned 'loop' off (and set the release up full!) so here's what happened: At 5 seconds, where Steve suggests point 2 should be (halfway through the 10second time parameter) there was a clear mix of both waves from point 1 and 2. At 10 seconds exactly only the wave at point 2 was audible. At 20 seconds it got to point 3 At 30 seconds it got to point 4. So that matches what the manual says, point 1 is 'zero' then the time parameter runs all the way through to point 2 etc. So I thought maybe its different in loop mode, and set up a loop so that once it got to point 4 it would loop around to point 1 again. There is no time parameter between point 4 and point 1, so I though this might be where it happens like Steve says. Guess what? No change. Once it got to point 4 it almost immediately looped around to point 1 again. I noticed i had a 'loop smooth' setting of 500ms so I think this is why it didn't loop straight away. I think the manual is right... but I am in no way a master of the ES2 so I'll be happy to stand corrected Hamish
    Reply
  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: ES2 Vector timeline advice
    Hi again Sorry, just to clarify how I read what the manual says: "With the exception of the first point, which is tied to the beginning of each played note" - this means point 1 is set at 0ms "every point has a Time parameter" - so this means point 2 has the first parameter, in my example it was set to 10000ms "This parameter defines the period of time required for the position indicator to travel from the point that preceded it." The position indicator is the little dot in the triangular mixer. 'Travelling from the point that preceded it' means moving from the previous point (in this example point 1) to the new point, (the one the time parameter refers to). in this example, point 2. So I read it as: "10000ms is the time it takes for the little dot in the mixer triangle to move from where it was set at point 1, to its new position at point 2" And thats what seemed to happen in the test. Actually I think what Steve is trying to emphasise is that each point from 2 onwards is directly linked to the time parameter before it, not the one after. Does that make more sense? H
    Reply
  • yan
    Posts: 44
    Joined: Jul 11th, 2008, 12:15
    Re: ES2 Vector timeline advice
    Hi Rounik and Hamish Thanks for getting back. Yeah I agree Rounik it could have been made a bit clearer. just to clarify.. I fully understand that each time parameter (apart from 1) is linked to the one before it. And that when you change the time parameter, you are changing the time from one parameter to the other. If the first time paramter is set to 10000ms, I gather it takes 10000ms to travel from the 1st time parameter to the second. So all in all the the actual wave which is represented by the time parameter and not the point that it is attributed to it? The point in itself can be considered a mix between two waves? Which is confusing as you setting the waves to the points and not to the time parameters. From the manual 'This parameter defines the period of time required for the cursor to travel from the point which preceded it. To travel [b]to where[/b]though? If it travels from a point which preceded it, would it not be traveling to another point. One more thing, if I set the time parameter before point 4 to 10000ms, that means it takes 10000ms to travel to the time parameter before point 2? But point 1 is set to 0 and the sound will come in on point 1? Any help always greatly appreciated
    Reply
  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: ES2 Vector timeline advice
    Hi Juno I think the vector works in a far simpler way than we're making out. When I tried out the vectors with 10 second gaps between the points, this is what happened: with 'Loop' off: point 1 was at zero ms, at the start of the sound (osc 1 only) it took 10000ms to get from point 1 to point 2 (osc 2 only) it took 10000ms to get from point 2 to point 3 (osc 3 only) it took 10000ms to get from point 3 to point 4 (osc 2 again) it sustained at point 4 until I released the key. With 'loop' on: point 1 was at zero ms, at the start of the sound (osc 1 only) it took 10000ms to get from point 1 to point 2 (osc 2 only) it took 10000ms to get from point 2 to point 3 (osc 3 only) it took 10000ms to get from point 3 to point 4 (osc 2 again) it took 500ms to go from point 4 back to point 1 (because I had the 'loop smooth' setting set to 500ms. I tried this at zero and it looped immediately back to point 1.) I think the time parameter is that simple. Its the time it takes to travel from one point to another. Point 1 is the start of the sound (at 0ms) and point 4 is the end, you can either sustain it or loop it back to 1. As the sound moves through the points, it morphs from one oscillator mix to another. When the vector is exactly on a point, only the sound that you have allocated to that point will be heard. I agree about the manual - it could have made it a bit clearer. It sounds to me like you are already doing it right by 'setting the waves to the points'. The best way to confirm this is to try it at some really long time settings and trust your ears. I never understood this myself until you asked the question, so thanks very much, I've learnt heaps! Cheers Hamish
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