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  • Wyxevia
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Jan 11th, 2010, 02:53
    Click track for drummer during live shows
    Greetings Mac Pro and Happy New Year! I am using logic for live shows and need to send my drummer a "click" track to sync him in while going live. What is the best method of doing this and making sure that there is no audio "out" to the audience. I am also looking forward to visiting your booth at this years NAMM show! Very excited! Cheers! Bobby B
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  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Hi Bobby B What audio interface are you using? The method to send a click track will be different depending on the number of outputs you have. For example, if you only have a stereo output (channels 1 and 2) I understand the usual method is to send the click track out through channel 1, and all the other backing tracks out through channel 2. Channel 2 is sent to the FOH engineer and is the channel that makes it to the audience. This means that the backing tracks are all going to come out mono, so you need to bear a couple of things in mind: a) if you have any panning effects they aren't going to work properly, and b) you need to mix the backing tracks in mono in advance so you don't have any phase issues or frequency clashes. If you have an audio interface that has more than one output, this isn't a problem. Send your backing tracks through channels 1 and 2 to the FOH engineer, and send the click track to the drummer through any spare channel you have (eg channel 3). A better explanation of how to set it up for mulitple outputs is in Logic TNT 2, chapter 28. Creating Headphone Mixes. This goes into a lot more detail about how you can create a completely separate mix of the same track for whoever needs it. I think its essential viewing for your situation. Hope that helps! Cheers Hamish
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  • Wyxevia
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Jan 11th, 2010, 02:53
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Hi Harnish, Thank you for your reply. The interface that I use is a Mackie 16201i firewire mixer. I have recently purchased it and am still configuring it to my needs. Here is what the manuel says about output via firewire: (1) ASSIGN TO FW 15-16 OUTPUT "This switch allows you to assign the left and right main mix to FireWire outputs 15 and 16. For example, you can record the live performance main mix onto your computer. This does not affect the analog main mix outputs. The output level to your computer is not affected by the main mix fader [55]. When this switch is disengaged, then mixer channels 15 and 16 are assigned to FireWire outputs 15 and 16 instead." I am adding a link to the manuel for the mixer if that helps. Again, I'm rather new to this format of using logic in a live setting, and the configuration is rather perplexing so please excuse my naive response. Here is the link:[url]http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1620i/index.html[/url] Cheers and thank you greatly for your help! Bobby B
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  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Hi Bobby B This is a bit of a tricky one, but I've got a few ideas. Bear with me though, its gonna take a bit of explaining! First of all, you have two channels to work with, so you should set up the mix like I said before, with the backing track mixed in mono and panned hard left or right, and the click track on its own on the other channel. I'm also assuming that the 'main mix' from your Mackie is what is going to the PA (or the FOH mixing desk if thats how you'll have it set up.) This is from the Mackie manual on page 10, and explains how the signal comes back into the mixer from Logic: "FireWire also provides a return for two channels from a DAW or computer. This can be routed through the control room/headphones via the FireWire button [38]... These same two channels from the computer can also be chosen as inputs to channels 15 and 16, allowing you to adjust the gain, EQ, level, and pan, as well as to solo, and add to aux send 1-4. This is routed using the FW/line input selector [23] on channels 15 and 16." Thats a lot to understand, but what it basicly means is this. You have 2 channels of signal coming back into the mixer from Logic - your backing track and click track (output channels 1 and 2). They come in through "firewire 1-2". In your mixer's assignment section, you can choose the source of the control room mix, from tape, Alt 3-4, and 'firewire 1-2'. So if you click the firewire 1-2 button, you'll hear both Logic channels through the control room section, and your headphones. The control room section is separate from the main mix, but the same as the headphones, so this means whatever plays through the headphones can be different from what plays through the main mix. But you can instead click the 'firewire 1-2' button on channels 15 and 16, which will then rout Logic's channels through 15 and 16, and send them automatically to the main mix. Now the thing is that no matter which way you rout the signal from Logic, the mixer won't let you split the signal without a bit of tricky rerouting. Both channel 15/16 and the control room/headphone mix are controlled by one fader each. And both have their benefits and drawbacks with regards to your question. It will be easier (require less cables) to use the control room mix, but channel 15-16 will let you apply EQ and external effects to your backing tracks. Before I explain the routing can you just let me know: 1. how do you want the drummer to hear the click - will he/she be wearing headphones? or have a separate monitor or active speaker of some kind? 2. are you controlling the full mix? ie are all the instruments going through the Mackie, and is the Main Mix from the Mackie going straight to the PA? Cheers Bobby, sorry for leaving you hanging one more post! H
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  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Hi Bobby I've had a look at the manual again and it looks like there's actually only one way it'll work. So I thought I'd let you know, here we go: First, set your mix up as mentioned before, click through the left channel (output 1) and mono mix through the right (output 2). On your mixer, assign firewire 1 and 2 to channels 15/16 (by pressing the firewire 1-2 button on channel 15 and 16) So your output from the DAW is coming into the desk through stereo channel 15/16, and both the click track and the backing track mix is being sent out through the Main Mix to the audience. But you need to split the signal into left and right channels so that you can send the click to the drummer, and the backing tracks to the audience. The best way to do this is to Mute channel 15/16. Thanks to the genius of Mackie this automatically assigns the signal to the Alt 3-4 outputs - which are separate outputs from the back of your mixer! So the signal is now split. Awesome. But at this point the Alt 3-4 outputs don't go anywhere, so you need to bring them back into the desk. Take the output of Alt 3 (which will be the Left channel = the click) and cable it back into channel 1 of the mixer. Set the gain so that it peaks just under zero, then drop the channel 1 fader down to zero. Lowering the fader stops the click from making it into the Main Mix. Take the output of Alt 4 (which will be the Right channel = the backing track) and cable it back into channel 2 of the mixer. Set the gain so that it peaks just under zero, but leave the fader up. You should now hear only the backing track through the Main Mix. So now you just need a way to hear the click track (channel 1) through the headphones. How? Here's how: Solo channel 1. The Solo button automatically overrides any other signal sent to the Control room/Headphone section. But because the channel 1 fader is down, you need to set the Rude Solo button (in the Main Mix Output section) to Pre-fader. Then you can turn up the Headphone volume and hear the click! Things to watch out for: If the drummer is wearing the headphones and the click is soloed, you won't be able to monitor the level of the backing tracks/main mix. You can't do this visually either because the Solo button overrides the meters. So when you set up your mix in Logic make sure that you use a hard limiter on the backing track, and that there are absolutely no peaks over 0db. Then set up channel 2's gain and fader first, before you hook up channel 1, and make sure that the level is exactly right. If you need to, tape the buttons in place so they don't move. Only when you're sure that the mix isn't going to destroy all the speakers/ear drums should you Solo the click. I think this should work fine, but you've got the desk so you'll have to let me know. (And make sure you experiment at low volumes!) Cheers Hamish
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  • Wyxevia
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Jan 11th, 2010, 02:53
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Greetings Harnish Awesome! Thank you so much for taking time out to read the manuel and get back to me with such a detailed response. I will run my first attempt tonight with the new configuration and get back to you as soon as I sort out all the routing. Cheers! Bobby
    Reply
  • Wyxevia
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Jan 11th, 2010, 02:53
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Greetings Hamish, I have been working through the configuration for the click track for the drummer and I have several questions. Question (1) How do you properly set the backing track mixed in mono and the click track on its own on other channel? Question (2) When going out of ALT 3-4 from the desk, I need to mute channel 15-16, and then send the signal via 1/4'' to channel 1 for the main mix, and the click track in channel 2. Question (3) (Bear with me on this question) Is there such a thing as a dedicated click track that is a channel strip setting?? In general, I need to make sure that the mix form logic is properly set prior to being routed to the desk. This is the only step that is giving me difficulty. I am getting audio out form channel 15-16 via the firewire 1-2, and I'm able to route the signal into the control room/headphones. In regards to performances, I do most of the "live" music mixing during gigs and then we send the signal to the house if they have a PA system. I have been wanting to use logic while in a live situation, but its been a hurdle trying to have drummers sit in. I play in a jazz band, and we enjoy electronic sounds over the straight ahead stuff we do. Here is our website if you would be interested to hear what we do. The first track is all done on logic and the rest are live. Again thank you and I look forward to your response:) Bobby B
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  • Wyxevia
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Jan 11th, 2010, 02:53
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Website: www.thenovamodern.com
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  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Hi Bobby Thanks for the link to your site, I really enjoyed your music! Well recorded and very chillaxing.... And nice Logic sounds too, I can see why you want to include them in the performance! I have a new soultion for the click track routing - hopefully by telling you about it I answer your questions. If you are mixing live instruments (ie the mics, guitars, vocals and Logic) and sending the end result to FOH, you need to be able to monitor the main mix yourself. So soloing the click track isn't really the best solution - because you won't be able to monitor anything except click. So I recommend buying a cheap but good headphone amp, and sending the click track to the amp through the Aux send of the click channel. That way the drummer can control the volume of the headphones, because the amp will be right there, and you're free to use the headphpone output on the desk for your own mixing - and can listen to the main mix! Its win-win. Here's how: Once you've assigned channel 15/16 to ALT 3+4 (by pressing mute on channel 15/16), bring the ouptut of ALT 3+4 back into the desk. with ¼" cables like you said. (It doesn't really matter, but I would actually use channel 7 for Logic and channel 8 for the click - you can drop the channel 8 fader to zero, and because its over to the right its out of the way so you can forget about it. You might want to use channels 1 and 2 for guitars as they have Hi-Z inputs.) Whichever channel has the click, send a good amount of signal through Aux 1, and turn up the Aux 1 master. The Aux master should be set to "pre". Then hook up the Aux 1 Output (on the back of the mixer) to the headphone amp and you're good to go. OK, the other questions, in reverse order: Q3: There is no click channel strip that I'm aware of, but you don't really need one. I'd actually record a 4 bar loop of Logic's midi click instrument (the mighty Klopfgeist) to its own channel. You can use the region as you like then, eg have a 4 bar count-in before the backing track starts. To record the click, go to the mixer view (apple 2), click on the "All" button (top right of the window, and the Klopfgeist will appear. Assign its output to Bus 1. In the arrange window, create a mono audio track. Assing its input to Bus 1, and record arm it. turn on the click track press Record, and record 4 bars of click. Loop the region out for the length of the song. Done. Q1: So now the click track is an audio region it will be on its own track in Logic. (track one). Pan track one hard left and mute it while you work on the other tracks. However many tracks you have leftover, mix them all panned centre. When you're done mixing, pan them all hard right. Unmute track one, and when you listen back you'll hear nothing but click in the Left speaker, and the full mix in the right. I hope this works for you, and I hope it all made sense! Give it a try, and let me know how you get on. I've got more ideas for mixing the tracks in Logic, but lets get the headphones working first! Cheers Hamish
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Click track for drummer during...
    Hey! I haven't been following this thread closely - but there is a Click channel strip in Logic. If you've got access to the Logic 304 TNT3: [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/logic304[/url] There's a section I did on creating a visual metronome. Even if you're not interested in visual metronome it makes for good viewing to understand how the metronome/click track in Logic works. Open the Mixer and click on the "ALL" tab. Scroll to the right and you should see the "Click" Software Instrument channel strip. It's in solo-safe mode so that when other channels are soloed it is not affected. Hope this helps somewhat & sorry for not following this thread more closely. :)
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