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  • Mr. BBA
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Feb 21st, 2011, 07:22
    Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Hey Steve, Im trying to figure out how to make the MIDI strings and other instruments in Logic (brass and woodwinds) sound more real when recording. How can I set the Mod wheel on my MIDI keyboard to control expression i.e. allow me to start from 0 at the lowest point on the mod wheel to 127 at the highest and record that data in real time as I perform and record the software instrument? Any ideas?
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Hi Mr. BBA, I'd be glad to give you some tips, but first, please post back with the names of one the brass and one of the woodwind instruments that you're using. Then I can give you specifics.
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  • Mr. BBA
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Feb 21st, 2011, 07:22
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Sure - take the strings from the EXS24 - string ensemble and /or violin legato (or any other orchestral sample from the EXS24 that uses expression - Brass woodwinds etc.) So if I want to make the string legato instrument in the EXS24 sound more like a real player by adding expression/volume swell and/or whatever other parameters could help create that effect, how can I do that and set that control to my modwheel (or any knob on my controller for that matter) so I can control those parameters as I record it in real time.
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Ok, let's take the string ensemble. (But FWIW, the reason I asked for the names of specific instruments is because they're not all programmed the same way; the modwheel on one instrument might already be programmed to do something like switch sample articulations whereas on another sound it might be free and clear to use as an expression controller.) OK, first, two core principles: 1) Almost without exception, acoustic instruments get brighter as they get louder, and conversely they sound duller when they're played softer. Creating convincing simulations of orchestral instruments requires attention to both of these aspects. 2) Getting a convincing sound means orchestrating the part in an authentic manner, i.e., voicing. Playing two-fisted chords on any string sound is guaranteed to sound "wrong" because strings aren't characteristically voiced that thickly. So now on to the programming. First thing you need to do is bypass the pre-programmed action of the modwheel to do vibrato, so click the b/p (bypass) button on that slot in the modulation matrix. Here are some other things you'll need to do to prepare the string ensemble instrument: - turn drive all the way down - turn the filter on - set the filter to 6dB lowpass - turn the cutoff down to (say) 50 Next, in the modulation matrix, set up two modulations: - modwheel (Control #1) to filter cutoff, depth around 50 - modhweel to Relative Volume, depth around 6 dB At this point you should have a sound that's fairly dull when you play with the modwheel down, and as you push it up the sound will get brighter and louder. And now you're on your way to the next step: fine-tuning the settings. Adjust these three things to taste: - cutoff frequency setting - modwheel to filter cutoff depth - modwheel to relative volume depth The final step is to set ENV2 release time so that as you play lines the notes don't overlap too much and sound mushy/artificial/keyboardy. Find a setting that generally works. So those are the first steps for setting up the sound itself to add expression using the modwheel. Good luck!
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  • Mr. BBA
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Feb 21st, 2011, 07:22
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Great thanks Steve! I'll give it a try - could you just be more specific in terms of what to select within the router(matrix section) are those terms synonymous? The 3 parts to choose from are Dest, Via, and Src. Would I be setting CC#1 to filter cutoff and relative volume in two separate routers? So far I've set the destinations for each, my question is what do I select for the Via, and Src slots. thanks
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    I'll thank Steve for you, but he didn't respond to your post. It was me, "Ski". :-) Yes, you'd be setting two different modulation routers in the matrix: 1) source = Control 1, dest = cutoff 2) source = Control 1, dest = relative volume You don't need to program anything into the "via" area. And setting the cutoff in the filter as well as the depth for both modulation slots are really to taste. But if you have trouble, post back and I'll give you more specific amounts for each. (BTW -- very important -- make sure you turn the filter on. It's off by default). Cheers! Ski
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  • Mr. BBA
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Feb 21st, 2011, 07:22
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    O sorry Ski, thanks! Cool it look like its working but i had to switch MIDI controllers cause for some reason the Mod wheel on the first one wasn't responding to the anything. The only thing I would like to know is how set it so that when my mod wheel is all the way down, the volume is ALL the way down and at its highest its all the way up giving me complete control over the range of volume. Also, I would just like to know the difference between the expression parameter in the hyperdraw option in the MIDI editor and Modulation as it pertains to what you've been showing me. Until now I've had to manually draw in expression in the hyperdraw to get that real human orchestral effect, Is there a way to control that using the modwheel as well...is that an alternative way to get that human feel? thanks ski
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Last things first... Human feel: get human by being human, complete with all of our lil' imperfections. Er, um, sorry, I was getting a little too philosophical there! But seriously though, if you want human, play in your parts and don't quantize them. As you start to pile up parts in an orchestration there may reach a point where one part now sounds a little too out of time with the others. The only practical solution (IMO) is to re-play the part. Next, to control the emotion of the part while you play it in (crescendo, decrescendo, etc.) you also have to develop technique for playing in your parts while you ride the controller (modwheel or whatever you're using to control dynamics). But the way you've probably got things set up now, you have not only CC control of dynamics but also velocity control of dynamics. Your choices are to either remove all velocity-induced dynamics from the sound and control levels exclusively with your CC, or, try to use both. Which is the best way to go is hard to say. It all depends on the nature of the part you're playing. "Expression" is just a name given to CC#11. It's nothing more than a volume control, just like CC#7. In some plugins, CC#11 ("expression") controls both volume and filter, just like I suggested you configure in the mod matrix. However, you can't use it to control volume/filter in EXS-24 because CC#11 is hard-wired in EXS to control the volume of the plugin itself. The difference between CC#11 and CC#7 is this: CC#7 will move the instrument channel's fader, while CC#11 will adjust the volume of the instrument itself without any visual feedback (other than whatever you see in the hyperdraw display). Will post back later with some more thoughts.
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    BBA wrote: [b]The only thing I would like to know is how set it so that when my mod wheel is all the way down, the volume is ALL the way down and at its highest its all the way up giving me complete control over the range of volume.[/b] On EXS-24... - turn the EXS's front panel volume control all the way down - move both halves of the "Level" slider to the top - in the mod matrix slot where you have a CC controlling Rel. Volume, move the depth slider all the way to the top With your control all the way down you'll get no sound. Moving it up will not only increase the volume but also the brightness. HTH! =Ski=
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  • Mr. BBA
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Feb 21st, 2011, 07:22
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    wow ski its working great, its been so great talking with you! In a different area, how do i get my mixer and my arrange window to be in sync in every way. Currently the order of my tracks in the arrange window is one way while in the mixer its completely different. The same is true for my track colors. I want everything I do to a track in the arrange window to correspond to the mixer, whether its order or color, so I don't have to do multiple steps more than once - any ideas?
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