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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Glad that's all working out for you! Regarding your track mixer and arrangement track order, I have some ideas, but would you mind starting a new thread for that? This way we can keep this one on topic for yourself or others that might want to continue the discussion on dynamic control for samplers and stuff. You could post it here or in the Logic section. : - ) =Ski=
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  • Mr. BBA
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Feb 21st, 2011, 07:22
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Sure, Ill start a new thread on that. But I did run into some other things on the EXS24: 1. After setting it up, the sound only starts to be generated once I use the modwheel in conjunction with it. The problem with that is when I record, I am not able to just record a part and then overdub modwheel info after, because no sound plays until I hit the modwheel. Thats why I was asking if there is a way to set the mod wheel (or any other knob on my Axiom MIDI Controller) to control expression as opposed to CC#1. Would that make a difference? (The Piano Roll hyper editor can display Modulation, or Expression, how can I set a controller assignment via the modwheel or any other knob to control expression?) 2. Is there a way to save that setting as a default so that every time I load a patch, say strings legato, I can control it that way without having to set it up all over again? thanks so much Ski - questions on colors will be in a new thread
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Cool, thanks for starting the new thread. Oh, and thanks for asking questions that are really difficult to answer LOLOL!! 1. The Modwheel Situation Even with the modwheel fully down, the EXS will generate sound internally when you play notes. But as you discovered, it then requires movement of the modwheel to some position other than zero to "reveal" the sound of the notes you played. Now... if you played a passage where you ended up with the modwheel being all the way up, Logic should allow you to pick up where you left off -- hearing the full-volume sound. If it's not doing that then you have to change your MIDI Chase settings, and possibly also change a few other things so that the modwheel isn't automatically set to zero when you stop playback. So first, please post back and let me know if that's what's occurring. 2. Which CC... You can use almost any CC you like, with some exceptions: - CC#7 is hardwired in Logic to control the channel strip fader - CC#10 controls the channel strip's panpot - CC#11 is hardwired in Logic to control volume in EXS-24 directly There are other exceptions as well. But you should be able to choose, say, CC#2 - 9, 12 - 31, and so on, and not run into any conflicts. 3. Expression Just a note that we have to be very clear when using the term "expression" if only because that's the official name for CC#11, but also, to distinguish it from what you're trying to achieve -- musical expression. And, as I previously explained, CC#11 has different [i]implementations[/i] in different plugins. I've already explained what it does in EXS. In Kontakt instruments it's very typical to find that CC#11 controls volume+filter (timbre). And then, in some instruments, CC#11 has no effect whatsoever. So when you say you want to use Expression in the hyper editor, know that what you'll be drawing in there will raise/lower the volume of the EXS sound just as you have it programmed. So for EXS, think of CC#11 as being an additional overall volume control. You could also assign CC#11 to a knob/slider on your controller and record CC#11 data in realtime, but you can't use CC#11 to then control the filter in EXS (if you try to select CC#11 in the modulation matrix you'll find that it says "unavailable" or something to that effect). The same is true in EXS for trying to assign CC#7 as a modulation source. 4. Hyperdraw Display I'll make this brief cuz I gotta run. But go into your key commands window and search for "hyperdraw: autodefine". Assign a key to it (mine is "H"). Now when you're in the piano roll, score editor, or even if you've selected a region, hitting "H" repeatedly will cycle the display through whatever CC data is contained in the region. (In fact, I just submitted a blog article on this which should appear sometime soon here on the MPV site). OK, gotta run. More later on your modwheel situation.
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Hi Mr. BBA, just wondering how things are working out for you. Cheers!
    Reply
  • Mr. BBA
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Feb 21st, 2011, 07:22
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Hey Ski, All is well - although I find that I still have to go in and manually draw in the expression automations data in the hyper editor. The problem with the way you showed me was that I have to touch the mod wheel every time now on order to start recording MIDI which can be a drag if I don't wanna record any automation yet. It also at times creates a distorted "skipping" effect sometimes when I move the MOD wheel around... So I guess with that, I've just been selecting in the piano roll Editor "Expression" and manually drawing the information, which can be tedious and time consuming. I want to set THAT parameter to a knob on my controller...any thoughts?
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Thanks for the update! : - ) There are solutions for all of the problems you described. Can't reply in detail right now, but will do later tonight. But for now I'll leave you with two thoughts... 1) Try and get into the habit of recording your modwheel moves as you play. Or, just before you start to play, record a modwheel movement that pushes the volume up to some level. Even if your levels or moves aren't 100% perfect or 'final' you can always re-do them later. 2) You'll be much better served dispensing with trying to write in CC#11 Expression moves and riding the volume on the channel strip itself -- in real time -- recording the movements in track automation in touch mode. More reply later!
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Couple of more thoughts... When it comes to doing this kind of thing, there is no single workflow or method, IMO. Different sounds are going to require different approaches to shaping dynamics as well as controlling the overall level of any particular sound in an arrangement. "No one said it's going to be easy..." LOL! But we can certainly try and make life as easy on ourselves as possible. To address the problem with your modwheel resetting, make sure that on every instrument that you've set up where modwheel (or whatever) is affecting volume and filter that the "no reset" checkbox is enabled. To find it, select the track, then open the (I don't know what it's called box" in the Inspector below the realtime parameters and the channel strip. You'll see it there. Next... Let's say you recorded a MIDI region where you rode up the modwheel to full, recorded some loud passages, and then stopped. *IF* your [b]Project Settings > MIDI > Chase[/b] parameters are set so that Control Changes 0 - 15 is enabled then you should be able to pick up where you left off, and the last modwheel value that you recorded in that region -- the one that brought up the dynamic to be full loudness -- will "chase" and you should be able to pick up where you left off without having to push the modwheel up. The converse is true, however... If the last passage you recorded ended in a diminuendo down to niente, then you can't expect to resume recording from that point and hear anything. Here you absolutely must push the wheel up to hear sound. Knowing/remembering what you did with the modwheel and what the behaviors are are all part of the learning curve. Finally... if you're hearing a chattering noise, that means only one thing: you've got two or more passes of a particular kind of CC information written into your regions, and Logic is playing the data from all of that data simultaneously. And the lesson here is that you can't attempt to ride (say) volume up with a particular CC and then try and "trim" that amount of volume ride simply by writing in more CC's on the same instrument. That said, there is a way to do this using Volume Automation (track automation) but when it comes to recording CC's like modwheel, or even drawing in a CC (like CC#11) you can only have one "curve" for each. Otherwise you'll get into exactly the situation you described. My advice? Control your dynamics with CC#1 as you programmed it into the EXS string sound. If you have to, overdub your dynamic moves on a new track (same instrument). Then, for overall volume adjustments (mixing), forget about CC#11. Instead, learn how to use volume automation. It couldn't be easier: simply put a track into Touch or Latch mode and move the on-screen fader. Voila.
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  • Jackodrums
    Posts: 1
    Joined: Sep 12th, 2010, 03:40
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    I ran across this thread and have it working like a champ on the stock EXS24 strings! Thanks Ski (from 2 years ago!) I know it's a long shot, but does anyone know how to do this same trick with other, cheapo, non-Logic instruments? I have the otherwise questionable Garritan Personal Orchestra 4, free Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra and Packet Blaukus and I've been trying like mad to deal with the built in MIDI effects new to Logic Pro X. The scripter is beyond my grasp and the built in "Modifier" MIDI effect preset as you can imagine only does the volume up/down bit - not the filter cutoff, etc. Thanks in advance and thanks for making at least my Logic strings passable!
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  • Luvekeo
    Posts: 5
    Joined: Nov 4th, 2007, 06:38
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    Was doing a Google search and found this post. I own (almost) all of your MPV lessons and I still learned more about EXS24 programming from the 'ghost of Scwartz's past' today. Namaste Ski!
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Logic Strings: How to making them sound authentic
    I like that -- "the ghost of Schwartz's past"! Glad you found this thread useful. Happy New Year to you!
    Reply
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