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  • Gorynui
    Posts: 203
    Joined: Oct 21st, 2007, 08:27
    No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    Hey there. I just upgraded my OS, from 10.5.8 to 10.6.6. I'm running Logic Pro 9.1.3. I was trying to fix an ongoing issue, but I'll describe that again later. What seems to have happened since this OS change is a problem with automation. I'm not much of a keyboard player, so I often record the basic lines, then put the track in Touch or Latch mode, and add the volume swells, pitch bends, etc. separately. Now I can't do this. I hear the articulations as I play them, but nothing gets recorded. I tried it when I first switched, and then changed to 64 bit mode, but that didn't help. The reason for my OS upgrade was an attempt at resolving an issue with a couple of MIDI notes not being recorded by Logic. At first I thought the keyboard was the problem, but it makes the sounds it should, and when I try recording MIDI in Garageband, all the notes show up when played. When I hit these notes in Logic, instead of the little "note / note crossed out" symbols that appear in the MIDI section of the transport, just the "note crossed out" shows up. The actual notes, G2 and A2 do appear, plus a constant velocity value of 64. However, all this info shows up slightly later than when playing healthy notes. Maybe I should add this to the original post, from six months ago... Yes, I've been playing with sick notes for that long, usually transposing up and down the keyboard after recording, which seems like the easiest workaround, but it's a pain in the arse. One suggested workaround is to open in a different user account, which solves the dead note problem, but I haven't been able to convince the folks at Omnisphere to allow/enable me to open it anywhere other than in my main user account. Plus, the automation thing is still an issue "over there". Long-winded I know. Sorry about that. Please throw any suggestions at me. I'm currently considering another clean reload, which takes at least one full day, and deprives me of Facebook for far too long....
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    Hi Sammy, I remember the problem you were having 6 months ago... and 1) can't believe you're still going through these pains... and 2) haven't heard or seen it documented anywhere else. It's a shame that the good folks at Spectrasonics won't let you use your other User account for Omni. Have you pointed them to this and your other thread to explain the situation? Also, I'd be interested to know if there are any difference between your Admin user account and your new user account. This is certainly odd... and in your shoes I'd probably do a clean erase and install and start from scratch (without using the Migration Assistant!) Probably best to resurrect the old thread... As for your automation... well, real-time automation has been working as normal on my system (both for audio and Software Inst tracks).
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    To resolve the issue with your notes, quit Logic and find this file: ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.logic.pro.cs Those are your control surface prefs file. Move it to the desktop and then re-start Logic. Chances are that your note problem will now have been resolved. Post back and let me know if it works (it should)! :-) Second... please, I beg of you. BEGGING I AM, BEGGING! ;) In the future, don't update your system software as an attempt to try and resolve an issue of any kind unless there's documentation in the software update which specifically says that it will address the issue you're having. If you have very reliable information that suggests that updating will fix the problem, then that's OK, but in every case you should do a complete backup of your system first (make a clone of your HD. Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper are two good ones). The only other thing I can think of in terms of resolving your automation issue is to go into your automation prefs and make sure that the appropriate checkboxes are enabled to allow you to record automation. [b]Prefs > Automation[/b] Maybe those checkboxes are unchecked!
    Reply
  • Gorynui
    Posts: 203
    Joined: Oct 21st, 2007, 08:27
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    Thanks for the ideas. First, I'm not well versed when it comes to going under the hood... I searched for "~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.logic.pro.cs" (Apple>Go>Go to folder...), and was told I couldn't open it without proper permissions. But I found "com.apple.logic.pro.cs" in the Prefs folder (same thing?) and dragged it to the desktop. When I opened Logic, I got a message about MIDI timeout, including the warning: Mac OS X MIDI Services not available. Any thoughts?
    Reply
  • Gorynui
    Posts: 203
    Joined: Oct 21st, 2007, 08:27
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    Oh boy! After quitting Logic and restarting the computer, I don't seem to be getting that MIDI warning, and more importantly, the missing notes have returned!! THANK YOU! However, I checked the automation preferences, and all the relevant boxes seem to be checked. I thought maybe the above solution might have changed something with this issue, but nope. I tried using pitch bend and the mod wheel first while recording (which worked, and always has) and then after the fact, in Touch mode while playing back the track (no info recorded). Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I'm only attempting a task using the same steps as before... Frustrating...
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    Cool! Yes, sometimes notes go missing because the .cs preferences get corrupted. And trashing them (or moving them out of that folder) forces Logic to create a new .cs file. As far as automation, I think maybe we have to define what automation is. Recording things like control movements and pitch bend are not automation. They're just MIDI events that can be recorded in a track. Having said that though... Apple/Logic decided to apply the term "region based automation" to what I just wrote described --- MIDI events (like control movements) that end up controlling some aspect of a sound, like CC#7 volume or (whatever effect) the modulation wheel (CC#1) has on a sound. For my money, there's nothing "automation" about that other than if you were to use CC#7 to control volume on a track, because THAT has the same effect as recording Logic's on-screen fader and recording that as automation. However, that's a different kind of automation, called "track based automation" (TBA). TBA is "true" automation, in that moving the on-screen channel faders or adjusting plugin parameters while a track is playing can be recorded in Logic's separate TBA tracks. Now... there IS a kind of hybrid of these two called "Quick Access", which is part of the whole control surface thingy. With QA you can assign a MIDI control (knob, slider) on your controller to, say, a channel fader. And now, instead of those control movements recording on a track as MIDI data, they end up creating true TBA data which get recorded in those separate TBA tracks. Finally, there is the control surface "Learn" function which does a similar thing as Quick Access, where you can get a control on your controller to alter various parameters in Logic. So when we talk about automation we'll need to clarify: 1) what you're trying to accomplish 2) how you're trying to accomplish it, using one of the four methods I mentioned: - so-called region-based automation - track-based automation - Quick Access - learned MIDI control-->parameter function
    Reply
  • Gorynui
    Posts: 203
    Joined: Oct 21st, 2007, 08:27
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    Wow. I'm not totally clear on the difference between those first two, but I suspect what I'm doing falls in one of those categories. As I'm not a keyboard player, I often record the notes of a melody first without any of the modulation that my x/y axis mod "wheel" provides (pitch bend on x; usually vibrato or another mod on y). I will then set the track to write, touch or latch and play it back, adding the modulation at this point. After that, I often open the track in the piano roll and tweak the parameters in there to make it more human sounding. Since the OS upgrade, I haven't been able to do this. It simply doesn't show up in the Hyper Draw section of the Piano Roll Editor. I hear it while performing the modulations but nothing is recorded.
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    To clarify... you said that you put a track in touch or latch, [b]play[/b] the track and add modulation, and then edit in hyperdraw. You said "play". Are you sure you're not [b]recording[/b] on that track when you add the modulation? The reason I ask is because you can't edit modulation in hyperdraw if you've recorded it using automation (Touch or Latch).
    Reply
  • Gorynui
    Posts: 203
    Joined: Oct 21st, 2007, 08:27
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    You're absolutely right. Record, not play. This is one of those threads I wish I could just delete... But thanks for that. My befuddled brain can be tied to a lot of things; this week the SuperMoon takes the blame. On another note - do you know any particular tutorials that cover the Hyper Editor? Checking the manual for this topic got me interested in that piece of Logic.
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: No after-the-fact automation...Snow Leopard?
    Hi SammyDave, Here's a link to an article I wrote on hyperdraw that you may find helpful: http://www.macprovideo.com/blog/logic-pro/region-editing-hyper-draw-autodefine-logic
    Reply
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