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  • Retro
    Posts: 12
    Joined: Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:45
    logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    I am a freelance art director who's hobby is making CDs of all my favorite songs from the last 5 decades, with crossfades and custom-made segues between songs. I also edit/remix songs I like, eg. seamlessly removing the mundane guitar solo (in my opinion) from Elton John's "Love Lies Bleeding". I am only working with Audio files and have no external anythings. I bought Logic 8 Express almost 2 years ago to replace my beloved SoundEdit 16, because Mac OSX does not support that software. I also bought the MacPro Logic 8 101, but its only recently after 2 one on one tutorials with a local musician that I have been able to pretty well duplicate what I did in SoundEdit... except... My tutor is on tour and unavailable and I have hit a bit of a roadblock. I will typically have 6-10 Audio tracks in my Arrange Window for a song I'm re-editing and/or building a segue. Should I "flatten" all the tracks into one track, like I do with a layered Photoshop file, before I Bounce the song? Or should I just Bounce the entire Arrange Window as is? Also, for segues, with SoundEdit I would copy the end of song 1 into the Arrange Window, and then the beginning of Song 2 onto another track. I would leave each song open with the highlighted area still 'live'. I would then build the segue on as many tracks as necessary and then 'mix' the result. I would then 'cut' that final segue AIFF into 2 parts, copying and pasting the 1st part back into the still open and marqueed Song 1, and the last half of the segue back into the still open Song 2. In that manner, I would have precise clean cuts going from one song to another in my final compilation CD. I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure the best way to duplicate this in Logic. Mucho thanks to anyone who may be able to assist me here. Retro
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    Bouncing is the equivalent of "flattening" multiple images in Photoshop. But unlike layers in PS, if you were to put all of your music tracks on one audio track in Logic, you wouldn't completely lose the ability to independently alter the individual tracks. However, you'll have more flexibility in making your mixes if you keep each music track on a separate audio track. There are several approaches you could take to accomplishing what you want. Here are two: 1) create a new stereo audio track for each of your music tracks and lay them up in the order you want to hear them. The regions in your arrange area will now have a 'stairstep' appearance. 2) figure out which is the loudest track. Then use the channel faders to adjust the volume of all of your other (softer) tracks so that you end up with an even-sounding level throughout the mix. 3) install a gain plugin on each of the softer music tracks and adjust the gain parameter to match the level adjustments you made with those channels' faders. Hold SHIFT to achieve finer volume increments if you can't get the gain parameter value to match the fader's values. Then, zero out the faders (OPT+click) to return them all to zero. 4) Overlap the regions to the positions needed for crossfading. 5) enable automation view, and put your tracks into Read mode. Click once on each yellow automation line in each track to establish a volume of 0dB on each track. Now you can click and add additional automation nodes, dragging them up and down, or changing their shape (with the automation curve tool) to create your crossfades between songs. When you're happy with your mix, Bounce. That will "render" a 2-mix (lingo for stereo mixdown) of your compilation. =========== Here's one more approach: Step 1: same as above Step 2: set Drag Mode to "Overlap" Step 3: position your regions so that the songs are lined up to segue the way you want them, but there won't be any crossfading between them at this stage. You'll now have overlapping regions in the arrange area. Step 4: to create a crossfade between, say, the song on tracks 1 and 2, drag track 2's region up to track 1. Because your drag mode is set to Overlap, the two tracks will automatically crossfade into one another. The shape and rate of crossfade can be controlled by adjusting the various crossfade parameters in the top box of the Inspector. Lather, rinse, repeat for other tracks. This method can provide a lot of instant crossfading gratification, so that's the upside. On the downside, if the music tracks you're crossfading are of unequal levels, having them reside on the same track means you won't have independent control of their level as you did with the first approach I outlined above. Now, there are ways to compensate for a difference in volume, and they would be to either: a) use volume automation on the track (containing the crossfaded regions) to raise/lower the volume over the course of the crossfade, or... b) open the softer of the two tracks in the sample editor and (destructively) process the track with the Gain function HTH, Ski
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    To clarify something re the second approach I outlined, "Step 1: same as above" just refers to the first step in the first approach, not the entire first approach.
    Reply
  • Retro
    Posts: 12
    Joined: Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:45
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    thanks for your tips. If I understand correctly, you are suggesting that I place all 15-20 songs that comprise my compilation, into one Arrange Window? (giving that step-ladder look). BTW, I have been automating the volume and pans, adjusting gain as the tracks demand, and have started to play with High Cut. I'm just wondering if it may be a tad nightmarish if I decide to change the order of some songs. I often burn several CDs before I hit upon the right sounding flow of one song to another. Can I "group" song tracks and multi-track segues together? That way I could "lock in" the areas of the arrange window that do not get changed and move them around without all their little edit bits losing their precisely timed places. And finally, I'm still not sure how I go about precisely "cutting apart" the seamless sound that runs from one song to the next, so that the songs can be numbered and accessed individually on the final CD. thanks, Retro (what does HTH mean?... how the hell?... halt the hysteria?... Harry the Hindu?...)
    Reply
  • redlogic
    Posts: 65
    Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008, 03:43
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    [i](what does HTH mean?... how the hell?... halt the hysteria?... Harry the Hindu?...)[/i] Pretty sure HTH means Harry the Hindu. LTH means Larry the Hindu. MTH means marry the Hindu. and so forth...
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    To the nightmarish possibilities... Whenever you create complexity, taking it apart to realize some other approach is going to require time and possibly compromise too. Wow, that sounds so philosophical, eh? But it's true. The easiest way to "group" regions is to pack them in a folder. The downside is that you can't see into the contents of a folder when you're outside ("one level up from") the folder. But you can always select multiple regions and move them en masse. The only thing you have to be careful of is any automation you have associated with those regions. Make sure that "move automation with regions" is set to either Ask or Always (automation prefs). And then, after you move regions with associated automation, make sure it's still intact afterward. Just curious, why are you playing with High Cut? What do you want to achieve with that? Oh, and HTH means... (Pssst everyone, should I tell him? What's that? Yeah? Oh, OK...) "hope that helps" : - )
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  • Retro
    Posts: 12
    Joined: Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:45
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    Its so obvious. Can't believe I missed that...
    Reply
  • Retro
    Posts: 12
    Joined: Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:45
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    I was lying in bed this morning in that 'reflective' state when the thought hit me - I bet it means Happy To Help. I don't text, tweet or Facebook, so I guess its pretty obvious that I'm old school. As a young teen music freak, I was once actually on stage for several hours while the Dead and the Airplane jammed after a concert. re: High Cut. When I remix songs, I will often construct an entirely new intro, or outtro, or do a little mashup somewhere using parts of the song itself, a different song, movie sound bites, sound effects, etc. I love (what I call) that 'phase shifter sound', and will use it wherever I think is apt... quite often in older songs that don't have the dynamic range of todays recorded music. Works good in segues too. In SoundEdit, one would marquee the area to be effected and hit a button. In Logic, I have to use that High Cut plugin and automate the frequency shift. A lot more control over the effect, but a lot more time intensive. BTW, is there a command where I can get one region to butt up precisely to another region? thx,
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: logic 8 express bouncing + mixing
    Hi Retro, There are a some handy quick tips for using Automation in Logic - but one in particular is to use the Marquee tool to select an area and then drag the automation line up/down inside that area... check out Tip 4 in this blog tutorial: [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/blog/logic-pro/5-amazing-ways-logics-marquee-tool[/url] Remember if you assign the Marquee tool as your "Command-Click" tool then simply hold down the Command key to use it... As for snapping one region's end to another region's beginning... sure... you can set the Drag mode in the top right of the Arrange area to "Shuffle Left" then slightly move the 2nd region and it should fly across so that it's beginning perfectly butts up against the end of the previous region. HTMS + HTH (only joking...) Hope this makes sense :) Rounik
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