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  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Changing key of Apple Loops when they're minor
    Hi folks! I am using an Apple Loop that was originally in G minor in a project in the key of E major. Logic transposed it of course and it sounds awesome, and totally in tune with the rest of the track. But i'm wondering how Logic did it - Did it recognise the sample as minor, and then transpose it to the relative minor of the project ie C# minor, since the project is in E major? Or was it just good luck that the sample (a piano riff) sounds totally spot on with everything else? Hoping someone with a more musically gifted ear can help me out, and hope you are all well Cheers Hamish
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Changing key of Apple Loops when they're minor
    Logic can't tell major from minor when it comes to audio, so I think you must have stumbled upon a happy set of circumstances. Also, the keys for some Apple loops aren't always correct. Would have to hear a clip of it to know what happened tho. Could you post one? Regards, Ski
    Reply
  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: Changing key of Apple Loops when they're minor
    Hi Ski Thanks for the reply! I've emailed you some links, please let me know what you think Cheers Hamish
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Changing key of Apple Loops when they're minor
    Hi Hamish, Got your links, thanks much. What had me mystified when I read your post was that you mentioned E major, and I was having a hard time figuring out how G minor stuff would work transposed to E major. But... your track is in [b]e minor[/b], so now it makes sense. Without giving away what you've done, here's how things break down harmonically for the first 4 chords, with the original chord name (based on g minor) on the left, your usage on the right in e minor: g minor = e minor d minor first inversion = b minor first inversion/E g minor = e minor F#b5 (or D7, no root) = D#b5 (or B7, no root)/E ...and so on. So indeed, it works, and very nicely I might add!
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  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: Changing key of Apple Loops when they're minor
    Thanks Ski! Ah, eminor! I had a sneaky suspicion that was it, the bass sample was listed as being in E, but it must also be minor. It definitely sounds a bit spooky/jazzy which is why it jumped out to me in the first place. The project is set for the key of E major, does this mean that I should change it to eminor? Or doesn't it matter if I'm not planning to print a score? Thanks again Hamish
    Reply
  • Hamish H
    Posts: 307
    Joined: May 4th, 2009, 02:29
    Re: Changing key of Apple Loops when they're minor
    Hi Ski What does /E mean? I've got this far... eminor = E G B (1, 3b, 5) b minor first inversion = D F# B (3b, 5, 1) but /E? how does that fit in? and D#b5 - is this a diminished chord? which means its Eb Gb A (1 3b 5b) Logic theory and music theory.... welcome again to the forums! Hope you stick around for a long time yet. Cheers! Hamish
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Changing key of Apple Loops when they're minor
    Hi Hamish, The "/E" means that the named chord is played over an E in the bass. The D#b5 is almost a diminished chord, but for a dim. chord to fully qualify as a dim. chord it needs to have four notes (more on this below). Your piano chord had only three, so I identified it ([i]incorrectly[/i], as it turns out) a D#b5 chord. I should have written [b]D#min b5 chord[/b]. And that is: D# F# A Here's how this breaks down... D# minor would be D# F# A#, where the A# is the fifth. Since the A# is flattened by a semitone, it's a D#min b5. And if that chord had a C on top it would have been a full-fledged D dim. chord. To further the point for identifying the chord as minor-flat-5 as opposed to diminished... If you play D# F# A and put a B on the bottom, you have a B7 chord ("B dominant 7th"). So the flat-5 triad can go both ways: a dim. chord with a C on top, or a B7 with a B on the bottom. So while the chord as you used it in your arrangement definitely has a diminished quality, were you to write out a chart for someone you would want to write D#min b5 (as opposed to D# dim) so that they wouldn't play the C. Not that the C would sound bad, but it would lend a different flavor to what you'd written. Also, one fine "theory point". When you're working in minor, you would write out E G B as (1, 3, 5) because in minor, the third is not "flat" as it's not being compared with anything else, and it's not an enharmonic or altered tone in the scale. So... E Major Chord, triad, = E G# B (1, 3, 5) E Minor Chord, triad, = E G B (1, 3, 5) Thanks again for your welcome! Looks like I'll be sticking around for a bit... : - )
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