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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    I think I've seen something about this before, but searching the forum I couldn't find anything, so please excuse me if this has been asked and answered before. I've found a green apple loop I want to use in a song I'm building (around a sound I came up with using Steve H's brilliant tutorial on the ES 2!). Specifically, it's called "DnB Haunted Beat." Trouble is, when I bring it in as a "green" (i.e. "editable") loop, it loses the sonic characteristics that made me want to use it in the first place. Is there any way to keep the loop editable, and keep all the cool sounds intact? Thanks for any help you can offer. best wishes, M
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    Hi Mory, So there is a reason behind why this happens. Imagine the process behind creating a green apple loop in Logic: If you place any processing plugins on a Send Aux channel and not directly on the software instrument channel strip (e.g. reverb, delay, etc on the Aux) then when the green apple loop region and channel strip settings are saved, the Aux channel settings are not. However, the blue apple loop version is basically just a bounced version of the stereo output of Logic... so it captures whatever is on the Send channels too. So, in short - if green apple loops were created with all effects on the SI channel strip then it'll sound the same when you drag it in as a green loop in Logic. If not... then all you can do is try to add the reverb, or whatever effects you feel is missing via a Sent to Aux channel. Hope that helps Rounik
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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    Thanks Rounik, Not quite the answer I was hoping for, but it is what it is. So basically, you're saying I have to figure it out for myself. I don't know. Apple is asking for a lot of self-sufficiency here. I bet Mrs. Reginald Maudling doesn't have to go through the drudgery of figuring out just by listening what plug-ins are auxed into her green apple loops. No, it would all be done for her. (And if you're not a python-phile, that whole last bit is probably lost on you). But seriously, this seems like kind of a big flaw in the system. I hope it's something coming in the next upgrade that when you add a green loop, you can get the same sound as in the preview, and it brings in all the necessary aux tracks and plugins as well. Maybe at the very least they could put out a database that lists if not the settings, at least the plugins used. Just an aside, do you know why some of the plugins are bypassed? I've tried turning them back on, and it still doesn't get the loop sounding the same as its blue counterpart, but perhaps it's a part of the answer? You know what would be cool? A tutorial on matching green loops to their preview state. Although the challenge of figuring it out on my own is, I admit, intriguing, it would be great to see an expert such as yourself or Steve H do a few, just so I (we?) could get a feel as to what to listen for, if there's any "go to" plugins that seem to be commonly used, etc. Or maybe I should just man up and go back and experiment until I figure it out on my own. I don't know. In any case, as always, your help is greatly appreciated. It's nice to have this resource. very best, M
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    LOL! I am big in Python-esq humour :) [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/interview/feature-interview-with-a-trainer-peter-schwartz[/url] Would be great Apple loops saved the routing configuration too... The plug-ins would have been bypassed at the time the person who created the loop saved them as an Apple loop... so that's not caused the difference in sound - it's just whatever was either on sends or on the main Stereo Output channel strip. Go forth and experiment !! ... and you're most welcome! ... and of course it's great to have you here too - need more Python humour :)
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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    Thanks for the link to the MIDI videos. Watched the first few. Looks to me like you and Peter are badly in need of an expensive course of psychiatric treatment. I know a lovely dairy I can recommend. Won't cure, you, of course, but it will give us lower paid workers a good laugh. And loved the SteveH cameo as the keeper of the gorge. Nice touch. And the falling printer. That made me cough up a lung. When I get through with all the tutorials I have now, it's definitely on my list. Moving back to the apple loop I'm trying to recreate, sounds to me like there is some modulation going on in one voice, and a delay effect on the snare. So separate effects applied to different voices. This might take a while...
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    LOL! I think you might be right there! Yes, SteveH as the bridge keeper is a classic, isn't it! btw, let me know what Apple Loop you're trying out and I'll check it out when I can. :)
    Reply
  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    Thanks, Rounik, I'm playing around. Sounds like a multi-output instantiation of the exs-24, though it comes up as a garageband instrument. Right now I'm working on the noise part. (the C6 in the instrument) (I converted the garage band drums into the equivalent exs-24 instrument and saved it as a new instrument so I can play with it). Also, is there a way to send a single voice to one of the LFOs in the exs-24? Or do you always have to send the entire instrument? Right now I've got a channel EQ with a high pass filter which I'll automate, and I've also got a flanger on the channel strip. The exact loop is: DnB Haunted Beat I'm not even close yet, but what I have so far is kind of interesting. So maybe the moral of the story is that I may stumble onto something I like better, but still would be very grateful if you can give me some pointers as to how more closely approximate the actual loop. Much appreciated. M
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    HI Morry! Well, what I'd do is create a new track with duplicate settings and play the C6 only on the duplicated track and adjust LFO settings to taste. Use the original track for all the parts except the C6 (noise) sound. So, I've listened to the DnB Haunted Beat in the Loop Browser on an audio track and a Software Instrument track (both as GB Drums and EXS24) and my ears can hear very little if any difference. What is your project tempo? Thanks Rounik
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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    Brilliant about the new track dedicated to the noise. That seems like a perfect solution. And brilliant about the rest of it too... So I jacked the tempo up to what the loop was recorded at, and yep, you're right. Very little difference. I didn't even look at the loop before I brought it in, and now I see what I thought was cool effect is the result of slowing down the loop so dramatically. My song tempo is 68. I feel a little foolish. That seems so simple. And, just a guess, the file that plays in the loop preview is the blue, not the green, right? Only if you're bored, and have some time to kill, any suggestions on how I can get some of that artifact-iness into the green track slowed down so dramatically? I find I'm less married to the sound, now that I've discovered what the real cause was, but in the interest of science, and only as a low priority for you, any suggestions on how to reproduce that sound in real time? Thanks for your patience and expertise. very best wishes, M
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Sound quality changing with green apple loops
    Excellent! Glad it's all brilliant :) Wow... going from 160 bpm to 68... are you doing ambient DnB? ;-) Yup! You're correct. The Loop Browser version you're hearing is the audio (blue) version of the Apple Loop. Basically you're listening to it through the Prelisten channel strip in Logic's Mixer. ooh... getting the artefacts you hear form the audio loop played back at 68 bpm.... hmmmm.... OK. It won't be perfect... but try this: - Drag Haunted DnB loop onto an audio track in the Arrange. - Set tempo as desired (68bpm?) - Double-click on audio region to open it in Sample Editor. - Set the transients... in fact follow the procedure for creating a new sampler instrument in this Hub article: [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/logic-pro/howto-convert-sampler-track-logic-9[/url] Once you're done creating a new sampler instrument (which basically renders the audio file at the lower tempo and loads them into a new sampler instrument)... then pop your tempo back up to whatever is your preferred project tempo and you should have something a little odd... You might need to use some reverb and / or light delay to help the sounds blend in a little better. In fact, carrying on the "Convert to sampler track" concept from above, you might get better results if you: - set tempo to 165. - drag loop onto Software Instrument track. - Record each sound you want with plenty of sustain into the Piano Roll... and make sure none of the sounds overlap, so each sound is independent. - Bounce the region (File > Bounce...) drag it onto a new audio track and mute the previous version. - Adjust tempo to 68. - Make sure the region is set with "Follow tempo" checked in the Inspector and bounce it again . This should have all the artefacts you like. - Now perform the "Convert to Sampler Instrument" as described above. - That should work better methinks... Let me know how you get on :) Rounik
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