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  • Joreg
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Jul 27th, 2006, 10:02
    Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    Hi, I have a session with the movie starting on bar 2 bang-on (offset 10:00:00:00) also have a locked marker there. The next marker is scene marker 20 seconds after. On bar one it has a 2-pop (09:59:58:00) at 120 bpm 2 seconds before the first frame. I would like to alter the tempo between the 1st and the 2nd marker without the movie moves from bar 2. I want it to stay! : ) how can I alter the tempo from bar 2 on without the movie drifts from that place? Peace, J
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    In the tempo editor (tempo list), use the pencil tool to add a new tempo event somewhere between the end of the first cue (1m1) and the start of the second cue (1m2). Exactly where to place this event will depend on how much space you have between cues. This tempo event is what we refer to as a "tempo buffer". Don't adjust the tempo of this event. Then, place another tempo event at Marker #2. You can freely change the tempo of this event to suit the tempo of 1m2, and the previous tempi won't be affected because of the existence of the "buffer" event. Now of course, your new tempo event at Marker #2 is going to start right on the downbeat. If 1m2's tempo is different from 1m1, and you were to go into record 1 or 2 measures before 1m2 starts -- to give yourself a count-in -- the BPM of the count will be at the tempo of the buffer event. It now becomes a little bit tricky to figure out what tempo to set the buffer event to in order to arrive at the same BPM that you need for the start of 1m2. Post back if you need help with this.
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  • Joreg
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Jul 27th, 2006, 10:02
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    Hi Ski, Actually my issue is on the start of the movie. If I change tempo at measure 2 1 1 1, I loose the 1st frame of the movie on that location. I can manage to hit the marker #2 on the downbeat, and still have starting on the spot, but only if I put the tempo change at 2 1 2 1 a frame latter, to avoid that the movie start moves from the first beat of bar 2/ 10:00:00:00 It's pretty obvious that with tempo changes the movie position will change, I just thought that was a way of locking it to prevent this only on the beginning when the off-set was: movie begin at 2 1 1 1 = 10:00:00:00. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense.
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    OK, thanks for clarifying. I thought you were trying to establish a tempo for the section that's 20 seconds later. OK, that aside... You wrote: "It's pretty obvious that with tempo changes the movie position will change". Actually, when you change the tempo, the movie position won't change. If anything, the movie's position in time is always fixed. When you change the tempo, the musical grid changes, but not the position of the movie. Or should I say, the movie [i]shouldn't[/i] move when you change the tempo. If it is moving then something else is going on. OK, let's start from scratch. Please post back with: - frame rate - movie start time setting - in your tempo list, do you have an event at 1 1 1 1? Next... when you say that you lose the first frame of the movie at 2 1 1 1, do you mean that visually you don't see it? And where would that frame not appear, in the thumbnail or the normal movie window?
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  • Joreg
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Jul 27th, 2006, 10:02
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    Hi Ski, Both the thumb nail and the SMPTE changed the initial position when alter tempo. Know, I just drag a loop to measure 2 and all of a sudden the movie begin stays put??? Man, that never happened before, but it meets my thoughts, go figure. Frame rate: 25 frames movie start 10:00:00:00 yes, at 1 1 1 1 the tempo is 120bmp SMPTE 09:59:58:00 (I have an audio 2-Pop, there 2 " before the 1st movie frame). Know, at 2 1 1 1 no matter I drag the tempo up or down the movie beginning stays put, like I wanted in first place. I really can't understand... is behaving even after I del the loop.
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    The problem is your movie start time setting (MST). The MST should always be set to the SMPTE value for the very very very very very first frame of the movie file (even if it doesn't have a burn at the top or in the leader, and I'll get to that in a minute). After you've set the MST, the SMPTE position of the first tempo event should reflect either one of two things: 1) the position in the film where you want to start counting off from, or... 2) the very first frame of film from which you want to start scoring Which of those you choose is up to you. But let's get back to the MST. The purpose of the MST is to tell Logic what the timecode burn value is at the very top of the movie. This serves as a reference for all other timecode calculations and positioning. You should never use the MST as a SMPTE offset into the movie if you can help it. Examples: Let's say that you have standard academy leader at the top of your film. This normally lasts for 8 seconds exactly, so the timecode burn at the very very first frame of film should be 09:59:52:00. Now, if you don't have timecode burn in the leader, but you know for a fact that the leader is normal, standard, and thus 8 seconds long, you can assume that 09:59:52:00 would have been the t/c number burned into the first frame of the leader. Thus, your MST would be 09:59:52:00. Now, per the details you've shared, you have a movie where the first frame of the entire movie file has a t/c burn of 09:59:58:00. I'm going to assume here that you don't have leader, but rather, the normal 2 seconds of black before first picture (first frame of actual footage). So in this case your MST should be set to 09:59:58:00. At this point, bar 1 1 1 1 can equal 09:59:58:00. This will give you a 1 bar countin (at 120 BPM) into first picture at bar 2. If you want to dispense with the countin and have 1 1 1 1 = first picture instead, then set the SMPTE position of the first tempo event to 10 hours exactly. So, to summarize: the MST should always be set to the first t/c position shown in the very very first frame of film. In fact, on a new project, the very first thing you should do is set the frame rate. The second thing you should do is set the MST as described. Do this and all of your other operations will be foolproof! Post back if any of that is unclear.
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    (I edited the above to correct some timecode values and clarify some points)
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    Jorge, Just curious to know if any of what I wrote above helped fix the situation for you.
    Reply
  • Joreg
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Jul 27th, 2006, 10:02
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    Hi Ski, actually what happened was Logic didn't behave as expected, probably something did occur on that session, the loops are not playing ok, even after restart, and movie beginning moves from the location when tempo changes and SMPTE was also crazy. Suddenly without changing any of the settings, after a loop drag to the arrange window Logic starts behaving as it should. After a restart and repair permissions, I've made several tests from new session files and the problem never happened again! I would like to thank you for your help and valuable information. check out this pdf: https://files.me.com/jorgecosta/krt8tw I have never changed those settings from the beginning; Import movie to bar 2 1 1 1 (Movie starts at 10:00:00:00) (no ladder) on audio track 2 there's a 2-POP for sync on bar 1 1 1 1 at 120bmp exactly 2 seconds from the start of the movie. Now, problem solved! Logic no longer behaves bad when the tempo changes from 2 1 1 1 on (what happened was the movie begin (went crazy) thumb nail and SMPTE moves to left or right of according to the tempo instead of staying put on Bar 2. I really can't tell if I had other applications running behind, that may caused it getting nuts. Thanks again mate, Jorge
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Locking the start of a movie on specific bar
    Hi Jorge, Thanks for your reply and also for the screenshots. And I'm glad that you've solved your problem! I see from your screenshots that your movie start time (MST) is set to a timecode position that's later than the timecode of your first tempo event. This is a situation that I don't recommend. But let me start from the beginning based on what I see in your screenshots... 1) your playhead is positioned at 1 1 1 1. The timecode burn in the picture shows 10 hours. But the SMPTE position of bar 1 1 1 1 is 09:59:58:00. Now, I see that you have Separate SMPTE View Offset enabled, and that bar 2 is set to display as 10 hours. For me, this setup is going to be confusing, because Logic's SMPTE counter will always be 2 seconds behind what you see in the picture. Recommendation: disable Separate SMPTE View Offset. 2) your movie start time (MST) is set to a SMPTE position of "first picture" (beach, ship in distance, timecode at 10 hours), but that's not really the best setting for the MST... Of course, I can't see if there's any timecode burn in the picture during the first 2 seconds of film before first picture, but from what you've described, if there is (or if there could have been) t/c burn in those two seconds, it would start at 09:59:58:00. And because the MST should be set to show the t/c burn on the very very first frame of the move itself, that's what your MST should be set to: 09:59:58:00. The reason for this is what I described in my previous post: Logic will base all SMPTE calculations and positions based on the t/c position of the very beginning of your movie file. And when you set things up as I recommend, you won't need to use the Separate SMPTE View Offset (which, for me, only makes things confusing). Recommendation: - (as above, disable SMPTE View Offset) - Set your MST to 09:59:58:00 - Check and, if necessary, adjust your tempo event's SMPTE positions to be the same as before. - never touch the MST setting after this. It will be correct for this and all other cues you write for this particular reel. With this setup, and your existing tempo map (tempo list), Logic's timecode counter AND picture's t/c burn will match up. And for all further work on this movie, adjust the SMPTE position of your tempo event(s) to read further into the picture. My Best, Peter
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