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  • musicdewolfe
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Jun 5th, 2011, 06:50
    Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    MacBook Pro OSX 10.6.7 / 2.53 / 4GB Logic Express 9.0.0 MIDI I/O into Nord C2 Combo Organ Focusrite Saffire 6 USB Interface Hello, I've read everything I can about how to manually assign non-premapped controllers in LE 9, but whenever I try the "Learn Mode" with my Nord C2, I get the spinwheel of death and subsequent crash. This occurs even if trying to map just a single note for trial purposes. (It responds with "Assignment Learned," but when I try to close the loop by clicking Learn Mode, everything hangs up.) The Saffire LED as well as Logic are both registering keystrokes from the Nord, so I feel like the MIDI connection and drivers must be solid. I've also set the Nord's "Local" switch to "E", as it should be for external use. Surely I'm overlooking something, or a lot of somethings, but I've run out of ideas to try. Any suggestions on how to proceed would be really appreciated. I know it CAN be done, because Booker T. uses his C2 as a MIDI controller. Thanks, Scott
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    Going to suggest that you trash your .cs prefs (control surface prefs). You can find out details of where they're located by reading my article on trashing prefs (start at the top to learn about the location for the .cs file, then go down to the bottom of the article to read about the .cs prefs): http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/logic-pro/trash-talk-guide-reset-logics-preference-files Please post back and let us know if that works for you. That said, however, I strongly advise not to use Logic's "learn" function. As I mention in the article, the .cs file itself is flaky. Additionally, the Learn function has been known to cause exactly the symptoms you described. If you're going to be using a CC to control a certain aspect of Logic then I'd highly recommend entertaining the idea of setting something up in Logic's environment to handle MIDI processing. It's infinitely more stable, and, "permanent" as opposed to using the Learn mode. If you'd like to explore this option, post back with details on what kinds of operations you're using the Learn function for, and, what MIDI events (CC's, notes, etc.) you want to control them with.
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  • musicdewolfe
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Jun 5th, 2011, 06:50
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    Thanks for your quick reply, Peter. I read your piece about the .cs prefs file, and based on what you've said I'm sure it couldn't hurt to move it to the desktop for now. However, you'll have to excuse my newbishness about how to make Logic recognize my Nord without using the Learn Mode. I'm definitely open to exploring any option that skirts around using Learn Mode, since it seems to be so flaky, especially if it's a better long term one. At this point, I'm just trying to get Logic to accept the Nord's keyboard as a note controller for the instruments loaded into Express 9, as well as a few plugins. It'd be nice to assign some knobs to faders, and maybe a few other control commands as well, but first I need keys. (On a side note, the Nord C2 is a double-manual Hammond organ clone, so actually there are two keyboards, and I've wondered if both could be used on a single channel; possibly one for note commands and one for Logic function commands -- but there's no point wondering any of that until LE 9 will recognize the thing at all!) I'm a rookie at this, as you can surely tell, but hopefully I'm making decent sense. Thanks again for your time and help.
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    I had a quick look at the C2 manual. Seems as though the swell, great, and pedal are assigned to MIDI channels 1, 2, & 3 (respectively) by default. Since the MIDI channels of each manual & pedal can be changed there should be no problem getting, say, the great and swell to transmit on the same channel. However, that's going to limit its usefulness, as the MIDI notes they generate will be the same for both manuals, making it impossible to distinguish between which notes are generated by which manual. If you'd like to use one manual as a control keyboard (for activating various functions in Logic) then you're best having it set to a different MIDI channel from the manual you'll be playing. If you can provide, say, two specific examples of what you'd like to control then we could talk about doing some Environment setup that will make that happen.
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  • musicdewolfe
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Jun 5th, 2011, 06:50
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    Ah, I see your point about doubling up both manuals on the same channel, that makes sense. I guess it's for the best that they're assigned to 1 and 2. As far as specific examples of what I'm looking to transmit from the Nord, first and foremost I'd just like it to serve as a slave unit for whatever software instrument or plugin I have running through Logic which requires the use of a keyboard. You could say that I want its keyboard to serve as a proxy keyboard for anything "piano-esque". These would include using the Grand Piano and Tonewheel Organ in Logic, the Arturia Modular Moog (which I don't own yet but plan to), the "chipsounds" plugin for video game sound design, the Redtape Samples of Fender Wurli and Rhodes, etc. So I'd like to have Logic recognize the Nord as the default keyboard control for all of these, and be able to hit G3, G4, F#1, F#3 on the Nord keys and have Logic respond with the proper concurrent note and sound in whatever SI or plugins are running. For other controls, I'm going on the assumption that with Local control shut off on the Nord, a knob becomes just a knob and a button becomes just a button, and so maybe a series of three buttons which usually control reverb on the Nord could be mapped to record, stop and play in Logic? And the Nord's overdrive knob might be turned into an effects fader in Logic? I'm afraid that having no working keyboard controller has prevented me from getting into Logic too heavily at this point, so it's hard to pin down which other control functions I'd want to control from the Nord besides keyboard strokes, although I'm sure there are plenty. Suggestions on that front are welcome for purposes of an Environment setup -- I'm sure whatever basic function we mapped as a trial experiment I would end up using anyway. Thanks again for your time and patience Peter, I'm feeling like this whole thing might finally come together with your help (I've been trying to get my Nord into Logic for a week now.) Scott
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  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    Hi, [i]first and foremost I'd just like it to serve as a slave unit for whatever software instrument or plugin I have running through Logic which requires the use of a keyboard. You could say that I want its keyboard to serve as a proxy keyboard for anything "piano-esque".[/i] Since the keyboard would be the source of the MIDI data playing the sounds, the keyboard would be the "master". Very often, a keyboard that works in this capacity is referred to as a master keyboard, and with Local turned off on the C2 it would act in just that way. By turning Local off you're disconnecting the keyboard and all of its controls from the C2's internal sound generator. Using the keys to select which sounds you want to play is also possible, as is using the overdrive knob to control effects. That would require environment programming to achieve. Though to control Logic's transport (play/stop/record), all you'd have to do is assign various MIDI notes to the equivalent key commands; that can be done directly in the key commands window. Now, before I continue, would you be using your setup for live performance or in the studio?
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  • musicdewolfe
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Jun 5th, 2011, 06:50
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    Hi Peter, I'll be using this setup strictly in the home studio. Thanks for the clarification on slave vs. master keyboard -- I should refrain from casually using terms like that in the forums in order to avoid confusion. Scott
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    No problem. So... selecting different sounds can be a simple as creating a bunch of tracks, assigning instrument channels to them (or MIDI instruments) and then loading up the sounds you want on each instrument. Then, by selecting tracks, you're selecting different instruments. But in terms of controlling the sounds on those instruments, and sticking with your idea of using the overdrive control to control different aspects of each of those sounds, that's where things get a little complicated. If the MIDI data that the overdrive control stays fixed (likely a MIDI CC#) then you'll likely have to translate that into other kinds of MIDI messages (or even Logic-specific, MIDI-like messages called 'fader events') to achieve the different uses for that o/d control. That's not so hard, but what you'll have to do is manually move a switch in the environment to designate which kind of MIDI message that o/d control is going to be translated into. This is where the "Learn" function comes in handy, because all you have to do, really, is move the o/d control and then click on a parameter. But the downside is that the whole Learn thing can be flaky. So if you want to go the environment route, you first have to identify which specific aspects of each sound you want to control. This has to be done on a plugin-by-plugin basis. Then, you have to ascertain what MIDI messages are being sent from the o/d control and use environment programming to translate that into another kind of message that'll alter the various sound parameters in each specific plugin. I know it sounds complicated, but once you get the hang of it it's not so bad.
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  • musicdewolfe
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Jun 5th, 2011, 06:50
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    Hey Peter, I want to thank you again for your patience and the time you've taken to help me so far. I think I have a vague idea what you're suggesting with "environments" as an alternative to Learn Mode assignments for the keyboard keys. Let me ask this -- if a plugin has many different selections, would you then need to make a different instrument track for EACH of those order to get the keyboard to respond for all of them? For example, take the chipsounds plugin, which can emulate 15 different video game computer chips. Could I make one "chipsounds" track and then control the cycling through all 15 chip options with an assigned knob, or would this actually necessitate making 15 different "chipsounds" tracks, one for each different sound that the plugin is capable of? And then setting individual control parameters for each? I guess another question would be about transmitting velocities, which the Nord is capable of. If you make a track that serves as a given instrument, are the velocities still intact (if applicable), or is the track "fixed" at the velocities you used when you made it? I don't really know if these questions make sense, they're just what came to mind when I read the rundown of making tracks for each instrument. Again, thanks -- this sounds like something that's worth a shot and, as you said, a more permanent solution. Scott
    Reply
  • Peter Schwartz
    Posts: 545
    Joined: Sep 15th, 2007, 06:04
    Re: Attemps to Assign Controller are Crashing Logic 9
    You're welcome! :-) Before I answer, can you post back with a link to the chipsounds plugin? After I have a look at the specs I can advise you more betterer. Next, velocities. When you record MIDI notes, you record the velocity you played them with. However, the velocity is always editable (event list, piano roll, score editor, or hyper editor). There are a million different ways you can alter the velocity too, including using the per-region velocity offsets and "dynamics" parameters, manually editing the velocity values (they range from 1 - 127), drawing in velocity (done with hyperdraw) and so on. And with some environment programming in place you can even use a control (like the modwheel or that overdrive control) to determine the velocity of the notes you play with. At this point I'd like to suggest that you check out my [b]MIDI 101: MIDI Demystified video tutorial[/b], because I think it will open up a world of understanding as to what you can do with your Nord's keys, controls, and so on. And let me say that I'm not in the habit of plugging my video. It's just that I'm getting the feeling that you'd benefit from learning more about MIDI as it pertains to everything you've posted about. Anyway, post back with a link to that chipsounds set and I'll have a look-see. =Ski= Linky to the tutorial: [url]http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/midi101[/url]
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