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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Hey, Hope everyone's weekend is going great. I have a project that I'm working on that someone brought into me, something he created in Garage Band, and in it is an apple loop, a green one, named Indian Rajah Bansuri 01, and the last note has this little trill articulation at the beginning of the pitch (actually several notes have it, but it's definitely on the last pitch, if you don't know what I'm talking about). I converted the instrument to the exs24, and I'm trying to edit it. Trouble is, I can't figure out how it's doing that. I've tried it at different velocities to see if it's triggered by a velocity level, I've looked in the hyper editor to see if anything fancy is being done through modulation or pitch bend, and I can't figure it out. I can't create it by playing the instrument, yet it's there on the pitch in the loop. How is that done, and how can I edit it? (i.e. remove it on this pitch, and perhaps instantiate it on another) Thanks in advance, and apologies if this question has already been asked. best wishes, Morry
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Hey Morry, Have you taken a look at the different controller data in the Event List? You'll be able to see all MIDI CC data there - which you can edit, delete or add to! HTH R
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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Rounik, Thanks for the advice. Sorry it took me a few days to get back to the project in question to try it. As an experiment, I copied the loop, then went into the copy and deleted all the controller data in the event list after the pitch "note-on." The trill articulation is still there. The note flips up before settling down onto the pitch I want. I'm totally bewildered. I assume it's something easy that I just don't know about. Learned a few cool tricks going through your Mac OS (Snow Leopard) tutorial, btw. Thanks!
    Reply
  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Hey Morry, Ah, ok... I'm not near Logic right now... but try this: Open the Piano Roll or Event List and check the velocity of the note where the trill is. Is it louder than the rest? If either adjust the velocity as it's likely the instrument consists of multi-layered samples, one being a trill which is triggered by higher velocities. You can open the EXS24 instrument editor to check the audio samples being used. Glad you enjoyed the Advanced OS 201 tutorial. Thanks :)
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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Rounik, I've tried it at a lot of different velocities. A tribute to the time I've spent hanging around in here rubbing elbows with the likes of you is, that is one of the first things I tried: changing velocities. Your cleverness is (very slowly) starting to rub off on me! But it doesn't seem to make any difference. Just tried it again to be sure, and velocity does not matter. In the editor, there is a trilled sample, and a plain one (and a few others). But both are assigned the same pitch, and both are assigned the full velocity range. I can't figure out what triggers the different samples. Guess I'm not quite as smart as I look after all... It appears that each articulation of the pitch (for all pitches) is assigned to a group, but beyond that I can't figure out how each sample is triggered.
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  • Rounik Admin
    Posts: 8713
    Joined: Dec 16th, 2006, 08:13
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Hey Mory, Excuse the late reply. So, I'm back in Logic (yeah!) and checked out this loop. In the Event List I can see Control 1, 11 (Expression) and Control 1, 1 (Modulation). Try this: 1. Copy the region so you have 3 copies. Leave the first one as the original. Now select the 2nd. 2. In the Event List click on the Notes filter button to hide note data. 3. Click on one of the Control 1, 11 events and from the local menu choose: Edit > Select Similar Events. (Logic will select all CC 1, 11 events). 4. Hit delete and play it back. 5. Select the 3rd region and this time select all Control 1, 1 events and delete them. Play it back. You'll be able to hear what the region sounds like without the programmed modulation and expression. Hope this helps Rounik
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  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Rounik, Thanks. I am away for the Thanksgiving holiday and won't be back until Tuesday next week. I'll take a look at it when I get back. I guess the bigger question is, how do you trigger those other samples in the exs24 if not through velocity? Or is that what those mod and pitch bend controller data points do?
    Reply
  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Rounik, Finally getting around to working on this track again. I'll let you know how it goes. best, M
    Reply
  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Reviving this old chestnut, I'm finally back to working on this project. I took your suggesting, Rounik, and went in and deleted all the similar controller info on a copy, and yes, it does take the trill out. Unfortunately, it also makes the sound very flat and dull, and I'm having trouble isolating the particular controller data point that is causing the unwanted trill. My very inelegant solution was to copy the flute track, and slice the loop so that the last note I want to sustain is alone on its own track, and then the controller data that comes before no longer affects it. The other issue I have with this is the EXS24 instrument itself. There are 5 groups in the edit window, and I've been through the MPV EXS24 tutorial again, and still can't see a way to trigger multiple samples without setting the velocity ranges. So as far as I can tell, the only samples that will play are the lowest ones on the "totem pole" with there being no way as is to trigger the other samples. All velocities are set to 0-127. Unless this means I'm supposed to be smart enough to go into the instrument and manually set the velocity ranges of the samples I want to play? This, in my case, is assuming a lot! ;-) But this is the first time I've encountered this, and was wondering what the deal is. Thanks. Good to be back. Love these forums. Happy Holidays from NYC M
    Reply
  • MorryNYC
    Posts: 229
    Joined: Nov 7th, 2008, 06:22
    Re: Trill articulation in green flute apple loop
    Ok, I got it. I finally understand what's going on in this loop and how to manipulate it. I'm a little slow, but I get there. Thanks for all the help. Happy New Year, everybody. M
    Reply
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