Tom Rice Latency toolbox LARGE MIDI setup – Forum Post & Discussion Thread : macProVideo.com

Posts: 9

Joined: Mar 19th, 2012, 02:53

Tom Rice Latency toolbox LARGE MIDI setup

Mar 27th, 2012, 09:47

Hi, Wow that tutorial of Tom Rice (Logic 9 207:Logic's Latency toolbox) really opened my eyes and helped ALOT! Calibrating my midi synths on their own isn't a problem anymore .... BUT I have a question for Tom Rice or anyone who knows how to proceed. I'm talking about section 8 of the tutorial (vids 41,42,43). Tom uses 4 midi external midi instruments.He first delays them to one another so the instruments are in sync with each other.Later he tells us how to sync this lot to the Logic master click. I fully understand but before I will start to calibrate my MIDI setup I would like to be sure how to proceed as I have a big studio with alot of midi synths,midi efx,midi to dcb converters,midi to cv etcetc...All connected to 2 Motu's Midi expresses 128 My question : I have to calibrate more than 25 midi (modules/synths) and I only have 16 audio ins....As I understand the test Tom Rice did required to record the fast-attack sound on all modules at the same run so you can calculate latency between each other and latency against Logic. Is it ok if I do the test in groups? (Recording 16 midi instruments and calculate latency and after that the remaining midi synths) If I do it this way,how should I proceed in finding the correct ALL MIDI OUTPUT DELAY,as I have 2 midi-groups instead of 1 like in the video... Headache and sorry for the chaotic explanation but it's not an easy subject :-) Thumbs up for Tom Rice!

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Dydavee

Posts: 16

Joined: Sep 19th, 2007, 07:47

Re: Tom Rice Latency toolbox LARGE MIDI setup

Mar 28th, 2012, 02:47

Hello Mr. Filth, I'm very glad you're getting a lot out of the tutorial! It sounds like you understand the process fine, but having more synths than inputs does complicate things a bit because, as you said, the idea is to record the test sound from all the modules in the one pass - so that pass-to-pass jitter is taken out of the equation. There are probably other ways to work around this, but this is what comes to mind now: 1) Break your instruments down into two groups, say one of 16 and one of the remainder. 2) Run the test, as outlined in the videos, to set the Track Delay for the first group so that they all playback in sync. 3) Choose the instrument from the first group that displayed the least note-to-note jitter (let's call this instrument "Steady Eddie") and add it to the second group. Leave Steady Eddie's Track Delay as it was set in the previous test, don't reset it to zero. 4) Run the test on these instruments, adjusting all Track Delays (including Eddie's if needed) to sync to the most-latent instrument of this group. 5) If, in step 4, you didn't need to adjust Eddie's Track Delay (that is Eddie was the most-latent instrument), then you are ready to move on to adjusting the All MIDI Output Delay. If you did need to adjust Eddie's Track Delay, then add that adjustment to the Track Delay of each of group one's instruments. 6) Out of all your instruments, choose the one that displayed the least note-to-note jitter (this will be Eddie, unless another proved steadier in group two) and use it to set the All MIDI Output Delay as shown in the video. (Note that the All MIDI Output Delay will delay the output of both your interfaces equally, which is what we want, as the individual instruments are in sync with each other already. There's no need to do anything special here.) 7) Now you are done! The only other thing to add is to make sure you watch and understand video 48, "Bug Shop - Part 3", preferably before running the test yourself. There seems to be a nasty bug when using track delays set in ms, which this video shows how to work around. Sounds like you've got a great setup, so good luck and I hope this all works out for you. Tom

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Club Filth

Posts: 9

Joined: Mar 19th, 2012, 02:53

Re: Tom Rice Latency toolbox LARGE MIDI setup

Mar 29th, 2012, 09:55

Hi Tom , Thanks for the fantastic explanation,I was also thinking in the same direction of keeping one steady instrument in 2 midi-groups... I only switched to DAW composing on a MacPro about 2 years ago....Whole my life (I'm 37) I only worked with an Atari Mega ST until 2 years ago :-) I miss its steady clock...I miss the way how arps are locked to the midi clock like a Juno60, jupiter8 or TB303...the Arps just don't sound as good when sequenced by Logic.... But thanks to your explanation I just got closer to a more satisfying midi solution. I'll do the testing like you explained this weekend,I'll let you know if the whole lot locks together! Some gear I have : Jupiter8,Juno60,Juno2,TB303,TR606,TR707,D110 (all Roland) I also have Yamaha CS-15,Korg Poly800,Elektron Monomachine,Sidstation and alot of E-mu and Kawai modules , Akai samplers,Alesis Fx's etcetc.... (Full kit list on my Soundcloud) PS :I only have a little doubt about the test: I hope firing a note-on on 16 midi-channels AT ONCE doesn't ruin the test!

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Club Filth

Posts: 9

Joined: Mar 19th, 2012, 02:53

Re: Tom Rice Latency toolbox LARGE MIDI setup

Apr 2nd, 2012, 01:18

Hi Tom! This weekend I calibrated my large (+25 midi devices,CV and DCB synths) using your Logic's Latency Toolbox and everything is LOCKED AS TIGHT AS FRESH UNDERPANTS! (Sorry but don't know the English saying for that) :-) I split all my midi instruments in 2 groups,and after calibrating the first group I took the synth with the least jitter (Steady Eddy!) and used this synth as a beacon for midi group 2 ... After testing I found that group2 is locked very tight to group1,I only had to do minor adjustments. Just to let you know that your way of working also works with a large setup. Final question for Tom : I have a lot of synths that use MIDI CLOCK for arpeggio's and internal sequencers..(Like Jupiter8,TB303,Juno60...) I use MIDI CLOCK alot,in Logic there is a preference that allows to delay transmission of MIDI CLOCK.... Do I have to enter the same value as the DELAY ALL MIDI OUTPUT? Thanks again Tom,2 years I was trying to implement my midi setup in Logic at no avail but thanks to you everything is locked tight! Cheers! Tim W. aka Club Filth

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Club Filth

Posts: 9

Joined: Mar 19th, 2012, 02:53

Re: Tom Rice Latency toolbox LARGE MIDI setup

Apr 2nd, 2012, 01:18

Hi Tom! This weekend I calibrated my large (+25 midi devices,CV and DCB synths) using your Logic's Latency Toolbox and everything is LOCKED AS TIGHT AS FRESH UNDERPANTS! (Sorry but don't know the English saying for that) :-) I split all my midi instruments in 2 groups,and after calibrating the first group I took the synth with the least jitter (Steady Eddy!) and used this synth as a beacon for midi group 2 ... After testing I found that group2 is locked very tight to group1,I only had to do minor adjustments. Just to let you know that your way of working also works with a large setup. Final question for Tom : I have a lot of synths that use MIDI CLOCK for arpeggio's and internal sequencers..(Like Jupiter8,TB303,Juno60...) I use MIDI CLOCK alot,in Logic there is a preference that allows to delay transmission of MIDI CLOCK.... Do I have to enter the same value as the DELAY ALL MIDI OUTPUT? Thanks again Tom,2 years I was trying to implement my midi setup in Logic at no avail but thanks to you everything is locked tight! Cheers! Tim W. aka Club Filth

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Club Filth

Posts: 9

Joined: Mar 19th, 2012, 02:53

Re: Tom Rice Latency toolbox LARGE MIDI setup

Apr 2nd, 2012, 01:18

Hi Tom! This weekend I calibrated my large (+25 midi devices,CV and DCB synths) using your Logic's Latency Toolbox and everything is LOCKED AS TIGHT AS FRESH UNDERPANTS! (Sorry but don't know the English saying for that) :-) I split all my midi instruments in 2 groups,and after calibrating the first group I took the synth with the least jitter (Steady Eddy!) and used this synth as a beacon for midi group 2 ... After testing I found that group2 is locked very tight to group1,I only had to do minor adjustments. Just to let you know that your way of working also works with a large setup. Final question for Tom : I have a lot of synths that use MIDI CLOCK for arpeggio's and internal sequencers..(Like Jupiter8,TB303,Juno60...) I use MIDI CLOCK alot,in Logic there is a preference that allows to delay transmission of MIDI CLOCK.... Do I have to enter the same value as the DELAY ALL MIDI OUTPUT? Thanks again Tom,2 years I was trying to implement my midi setup in Logic at no avail but thanks to you everything is locked tight! Cheers! Tim W. aka Club Filth

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