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  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009, 10:56
    Another Dithering Thread
    I'm back again with another question about dithering during bouncing. Probably asked before, but I'm still not clear. I'm putting together a bunch of songs for an album, using Logic 9 as my DAW. As I mix and quasi-master each one (no further intention to master), I find that I need to check the mix by burning each song to a CD and playing it on my car stereo while I'm driving. [I call the 'road test'.] But I'm intending to migrate the songs into Waveburner when they are all ready, which I will use to simply compile the CD, and maybe for some final volume/EQ tweaks. I figured I should leave the mixes as 24-bit (no bit reduction) until I get ready to burn the final CD from within Waveburner. When I'm simply burning songs onto a CD for the 'road test', and preparing what could be the final mix, I keep the bit depth a 24, but I figured I needed to apply dithering because it's going onto a CD. Here's my question: In Logic's Bounce window, do I need to apply dithering for those bounces intended for the road test and for a possible final mix? I've been selecting 24 bit (for the Bounce folder) and dithering for the CD burn, and, strangely, Logic lets me do that. I don't really understand whether my Bounce file is therefore already dithered (which I don't want) or just the file burned onto the CD. I guess the file saved in the Bounce folder couldn't really be dithered if it's still 24-bit, right? Thanks for the help. Just call me paranoid about dithering twice.
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  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007, 12:54
    Re: Another Dithering Thread
    For the 'road test' are you using Waveburner or Logic to burn the CD? I would recommend if you are using Logic or Waveburner convert it to 16-bit with dithering.
    Reply
  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009, 10:56
    Re: Another Dithering Thread
    Gary, I'm sorry to bug you again about this topic. I'm simply using Logic's Bounce window to produce bounces (potentially the final one each time, if I have no more tweaks) and to simultaneously burn to CD for the road test. Like I indicated, in the Bounce window, I select 24-bit (for the Bounce file, later to be used within Waveburner) and POW 1 dithering (assuming this is needed for the CD burn). I just donât understand dithering and whether Logic imparts this to the 24-bit bounce (not desired) or only when burning the CD. I appreciate your patience with my confusion.
    Reply
  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007, 12:54
    Re: Another Dithering Thread
    If Logic is burning to CD it will burn the audio file at 16-bit as standard CD players can only read 16-bit audio files. So if you are choosing the burn to CD option when you bounce in Logic, this audio file will be 16-bit. And in the CD option you can choose a dithering option (which is preferable) I hope this helps?
    Reply
  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009, 10:56
    Re: Another Dithering Thread
    Yes, that's helpful Gary. I'm still a little uncertain whether the 24-bit bounce has been dithered, which what I care about most (don't want this). I guess that wouldn't happen if there is no bit reduction (my songs are all 24-bit, and I'm specifying a 24-bit bounce). So am I assuming correctly that if I did not opt for dithering in the Bounce window, but yet I designated a CD burn, in addition to the PCM bounce, the dithering would not be imparted to the bit reduction for the CD burn? The window behavior seems strange to me, because my standard settings for the Bounce window are 24-bit PCM file and a CD burn (for the road test), but if I make another bounce/burn (same or different song), the settings from my previous bounce/burn are mostly still in place (boxes checked for PCM file and for CDDA burn, and 24-bit density is still selected), but the dithering option is removed every time, and I have to reselect that. You'd think that, since I'm burning a CD, Logic's bounce window would not default to a no-dithering condition. Make sense? I just want to make sure that I'm not dithering the bounced file, as I will be pulling this into Waveburner and burning from there, which means another dithering. Do you know whether dithering has any impact if there is no bit reduction (i.e., for the 24-bit bounce)?
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  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007, 12:54
    Re: Another Dithering Thread
    No, the CD Bounce audio file will only be dithered if you tick this option in the CD Audio menu under the Bounce settings. But the CD audio file will be converted to 16-bit to play on a CD player. Does this make sense? If you also bounce out as PCM at 24-bit this will retain those settings, just the CD Audio will be at 16-bit. But what I am saying is that I would recommend that you add the dither option to the CD Audio not the PCM file. If you are happy with the way the audio sounds, you can then add the dithering in Waveburner to the PCM file.
    Reply
  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009, 10:56
    Re: Re: Another Dithering Thread
    Thanks again, Gary. I think I understand that the bit reduction (from 24 to16 bits) required for the CD audio production (and burn) will include a dithering step only if that option is selected in the Bounce window. And, hopefully, the PCM file is not dithered. The thing that is messing with my mind is a s follows: If I click on the CDDA field in the left-side column of the Bounce window, the associated parameters that appear on the right include a dithering entry. If I then select a dithering algorithm (e.g., POW 1), [b][/b]this is automatically selected for the PCM file. Check it out. If you click 'None' for dithering, this 'None' selection is displayed for both the PCM and the CDDA parameters, or, conversely, if you select a dithering algorithm for the PCM or CDDA parameters, this same entry appears in the parameter choices for both types of files. They are tied to each other, and it really seems that I cannot apply dithering only to the file to be burned to the CD and not the PCM file to be saved in the Bounce folder. But I've taken up enough of your time, so no need to respond. You're a good dude to take the time to help me understand this strangeness. I think I'm going to separate these processes and burn my 'road test' CDs ([b][/b]with dithering and [b][/b]without generating a PCM file) until I'm happy with the mix, and then generate a PCM bounce without dithering, to be later used in Waveburner.
    Reply
  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007, 12:54
    Re: Another Dithering Thread
    Oh, I see what you mean. Sorry I never use the Bounce to CD option in Logic. I normally use Waveburner. Why don't you do two bounces? One for the PCM without dithering, and then the other for the CD with dithering. It's a little extra work, but then you know for certain that there will be no dithering on the PCM file.
    Reply
  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009, 10:56
    Re: Another Dithering Thread
    That's exactly what I will do. Thanks again.
    Reply
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