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  • Nudoguy
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2006, 02:41
    January TNT - criticism
    In tut #50, Steve shows how to save and recall zoom levels via key commands (something I've been using for years and is indeed a great tip). I have a few criticisms though: He instructs the user to uncheck (ie switch off) 3 system-wide key commands in [Keyboard and Mouse] System prefs. These are Expose commands but it seems that Steve has different defaults from those normally configured by Apple. The default OSX shortcuts (as far as I know) are: All windows F9 Application windows F10 Desktop F11 Steve had these as F1, F2 & F3 respectively - perhaps he manually reconfigured these at some time. He instructs you to uncheck (ie disable) these functions. In my view, this is really bad advice as these 3 Expose shortcuts are great time-savers. I use them all the time. Next, he instructs the user to use F1, F2 & F3 (plus cmd-F1 etc) for the zoom shortcuts. Fine, but he should have also told users that they may use ANY key combos they like which are currently unused. In fact, if users have the system defaults F9-F11 in use (see above), then there would be no need to lose the functionality of Expose at all. In my opinion, this tutorial is a mixture of really good and really bad advice. Sorry Steve.... Regards - Colin
    Reply
  • kayleclements
    Posts: 55
    Joined: Jul 22nd, 2006, 06:55
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    I have to say that I too, am a little disappointed in Jan addition. I didn't think that zoom levels and color really fit into the 303 series. It seems more 100 level stuff. Although the reminder is nice, it just doesn't seem to fit in with the level of the ones before. I have really enjoyed the videos so far, and I look forward to Feb's installment.
    Reply
  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    I appreciate you constructive criticism and I understand how workflow techniques aren't as sexy as some of the under-the-covers stuff I've been doing. I felt compelled to cover this stuff because, 'tho it may be obvious to some, as I travel the Logic road I find so many seasoned pros along the way who have no idea how and why the different zoom functions work. Yes, these are somewhat basic techniques yet they are essential in speeding up workflow and keeping a fast paced real world Logic session moving right along. Also, customizing the look and feel of the Logic interface and coloring regions is an important and under-utilized part of the Logic experience and useful for editing and selection. Sometimes the forgotten 100 level stuff is the stuff that is the most important!! But I get the point... next month I will get back to the mystical arcana of it all! :) Anyone else out there wanna chime in.. I'd be interested in your comments!
    Reply
  • Cajypiu
    Posts: 400
    Joined: Oct 11th, 2006, 09:48
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    Hi Steve, I must admit, my initial thoughts when you covered the colours and size stuff was... a bit disappointing, but that's not to say that I know they aren't useful. Workflows are just as important as technical capability and need to be drummed in... but like you said, there's no real way of dressing them up so you'll get the oohhhh ahhhhhh moment... unless you're german and you actively search out critical path enhancements! On the whole, I think you guys do an excellent job. Well balanced, excellent delivery.. and addictive with a thirst left for more! There will always be overlap between courses because that's how it is, the only thing I would keep in perspective is that it is a level 3 course. There is already quite a lot of low level content available both on your site and other resources such as other forums, in addition to the peachpit series, but mid to high level stuff is thin on the ground. If people get stuck with the higher level stuff, especially when it's covered in other tutorials, it's in their interest to get those too! The other challenge you guys have is that there have been so many suggestions for new stuff from song writing to environment magic, that 15min ish per month just ain't enough for some topics.... unless you do what you did with the sidechaining feature and span it over two months. That works well. Prioritising topics, however, when there are so many must also be hard and kind of left to your judgement too as you know what people are doing out there more than us.. hence why you did the colours feature. Maybe that's what would help get approval for future content and depth? Democratic polling if you upload a list of stuff to choose from, which in turn is a short list of topics we have requested as well as ideas you think are useful thrown in?
    Reply
  • Nudoguy
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2006, 02:41
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    The criticism from my initial post (and this whole thread) has been kind of hijacked into a general discussion. Steve, would you consider re-recording the tutorial in question with the caveats I raised?
    Reply
  • Cajypiu
    Posts: 400
    Joined: Oct 11th, 2006, 09:48
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    Hijack.... bit strong isn't it!? ... a Mississippi tangent maybe! Fair point, F1, F2 and F3 are not default commands for epose and that probably should have been mentioned... but, if you want to get picky.. having to point out to the users, on the receiving end of the tutorial, that you can use ANY key combos they like when assigning key commands, is a tad undermining. Key commands have been an integral part of the logic learning experience since the 101 series. Colour and track sizing techniques were covered back then as well, but their impact on workflow aren't immediately obvious unless you've had hours in the driving seat on lots of different projects. You could argue that this tutorial series shouldn't be aimed at the uninitiated, but you also have to allow for cross over and continuity. Here's one for free though, why not assign expose features to 'hot corners' that way you free up ALL of your function keys for use in logic? I personally prefer to have auto track zoom and track automation up there for starters, as well as zoom and marker functionality. Being the errr on the side of innocent until proven guilty type myself though, Steve, why did you feel the need change the F9, F10 and F11 expose features? What do you use these keys in Logic for?
    Reply
  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    I use the hot corners for the very reason you mentioned!
    Reply
  • Nudoguy
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2006, 02:41
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    [quote:3745]Hijack.... bit strong isn't it!? [/quote] Sorry - we get a lot of hijacking where I come from... :-( Steve, you reply to other posts but not mine. Are you avoiding them?
    Reply
  • steveH
    Posts: 857
    Joined: Oct 17th, 2006, 05:19
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    Colin, No, I am not "avoiding" you. Why would you make that accusation? I thought that I answered your criticism in my first post. What you may have noticed that I was avoiding the "tone" of your comments. Which, in my opinion, go against the spirit and mission of this forum as set out in the FAQ's at the following link: https://www.macprovideo.com/about/forum-faq.php However, for the sake of clarity and factualness, I'll kindly respond: You said: "He instructs the user to uncheck (ie switch off) 3 system-wide key commands in [Keyboard and Mouse] System prefs. These are Expose commands but it seems that Steve has different defaults from those normally configured by Apple." I say: The commands I carefully chose for my zoom level tips are the same ones recommended by Apple in their official advanced training series books. Function keys 1-3 are perfect for this series of command because their numerals match the numerals of the zoom levels themselves. Also, I might add, that the factory function keys for Expose are F10-12, not F1-3. Besides, the Expose commands work better and quicker by using the "hot corners" which free up more key command opportunities for Logic! (being that Logic doesn't have hot corners!). You state: "Next, he instructs the user to use F1, F2 & F3 (plus cmd-F1 etc) for the zoom shortcuts. Fine, but he should have also told users that they may use ANY key combos they like which are currently unused." I say: -Well, since every advanced Logic user knows and employs the power of Logic's key commands, and, most likely, creates their own personal key commands, I thought mentioning this would be far too basic for a 303 level tutorial. You proffer: "In my opinion, this tutorial is a mixture of really good and really bad advice." -That, Colin, was simply mean spirited. I refute your statement, based upon my explanations above, that ANY advice I give in these tutorials is "bad". Your word choices, Colin, are not appropriate. The content I include is carefully vetted and thought out. Quite frankly, I find your comments hurtful and insulting. Just because you, personally, may disagree with my suggestions doesn't make them "bad". And because I don't respond directly, point by point, to your criticisms doesn't mean that I'm "avoiding" you. Please don't underestimate the power of your words and how they may affect us here at macProVideo. And, more to the point, please don't "hijack" the thoughtful tone of this forum. In this wonderful forum, where all of us who dare to share our Logic TNT's must feel comfortable and safe, the tone has to be constructive. This is not a place for accusations and harsh criticisms. Civility is key for the free and unfettered transfer of information. Disagreements are welcome, and I might add, spark interest in serious and exciting discussion. But rather than attacking one another, it works much better to offer suggestions and alternatives. And remember: "macProVideo.com's forums are a friendly place for like-minded people to discuss software. Keep your posts light, friendly, and helpful. The following actions will result in the temporary suspension of your account: -Senseless criticism of forum posts -Starting flame wars with other members -SPAMing forums with unrelated info" Let's keep this forum healthy, informative and safe. Thanks! Steve H.
    Reply
  • Nudoguy
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2006, 02:41
    Re: January TNT - criticism
    Hi Steve, Thanks for your detailed reply. Let me apologise right up front for any harshness of tone in my first mail. If you see the kind of language used on many other forums, you'd know my post was quite "polite". Nonetheless, I concede that it may have been perceived as contra the rules of MacProVideo forums. I'd like to respond to a few of your points, not to cause further confrontation, but rather in an attempt to clear things up. I have great respect for you as a trainer and perhaps this is why I was so critical at first. Your words in bold: [b]No, I am not "avoiding" you. Why would you make that accusation? [/b] Simply because you did not respond regarding the Expose shortcut issue. Anyway, we're past that now. [b]The commands I carefully chose for my zoom level tips are the same ones recommended by Apple in their official advanced training series books. Function keys 1-3 are perfect for this series of command because their numerals match the numerals of the zoom levels themselves. [/b] I have no problem with that at all. However, your video grab of your System Prefs shows that you had F1-F3 configured for Expose - check it out. [b] Also, I might add, that the factory function keys for Expose are F10-12, not F1-3 [/b] Actually, F12 is the default for Dashboard. F9-F11 are the Expose shortcuts. But my original point still stands - your video shows that YOU had F1-F3 set for Expose (not F9-F11), hence you were required to disable them in order to use these keys in Logic. For anyone using the Apple defaults, this would not have been necessary. [b]In this wonderful forum, where all of us who dare to share our Logic TNT's must feel comfortable and safe, the tone has to be constructive. This is not a place for accusations and harsh criticisms. Civility is key for the free and unfettered transfer of information. Disagreements are welcome, and I might add, spark interest in serious and exciting discussion. But rather than attacking one another, it works much better to offer suggestions and alternatives. [/b] I have already apologised above, and you and others will no doubt see from other posts that I have made at these forums that I have indeed offered advice and help and not only criticism. I still believe my input (as above) was valid, though perhaps not diplomatically expressed. Sorry for any raised blood pressure. Best regards - Colin
    Reply
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