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  • PaulCha
    Posts: 5
    Joined: May 21st, 2013
    Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching with Logic Pro
    I am trying to use a Groove in 6/8 time from Studio Drummer in Logic Pro. I created a project in Logic Pro and set the time signature to 6/8. When I drag the 6/8 Groove from Studio Drummer into Logic Pro the Groove does not match up with bars in Logic Pro. I have noticed that the metronome in Logic Pro does not seem to match the metronome in Studio Drummer. The BPMs are showing as the same, but it does not sound the same.
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  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007
    Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    What version of Logic are you running? And what is the version of Kontakt 5? Click on the NI logo and it will give you the exact version. See if you have the latest Kontakt 5 update. This seems to have been an issue with other users.
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  • PaulCha
    Posts: 5
    Joined: May 21st, 2013
    Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    Many thanks for your reply. I would very much like to solve this issue, so if there is further assistance you can give, I will be very grateful. I checked via SERVICE CENTER for updates to KONTAKT 5, and there were no updates available. The version number of KONTAKT 5 I have is 5.1.0.6066 The version of logic pro I have is 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit).
    Reply
  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007
    Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    Hi PaulCha, If I find out any more information that may help I will let you know. Likewise, let us know if you figure it out how to get in working.
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  • PaulCha
    Posts: 5
    Joined: May 21st, 2013
    Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    Thanks, much appreciated. If I do manage to find a solution, I will for sure let you know too. Regards, Paul.
    Reply
  • Paul Bissell
    Posts: 73
    Joined: Jan 8th, 2010
    Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    Hi PaulCha, It is probably because it isn't a "real 6/8" I pulled up Studio Drummer and found a groove labelled as Blues Rock 100BPM 6 - 8 The problem is that this is not a "real 6/8" - it is still a quarter note beat with the inner notes being played as triplets. A 'real 6/8' would have the dotted quarter as the beat (where you would clap or tap your foot) and the inner notes being normal 8th notes. Do they sound the same? Yes. The difference is that the BPM would be a 33% difference for them to line up. If your Logic file is in 6/8....eeek. It isn't going to work (easily) with the way they programmed the beats since they are using triplets - and those would play as triplets against the quarter note pulse in your 6/8 song. In Logic - and other DAWs of which I am aware - the tempo indication is ALWAYS in reference to the quarter note (not necessarily the toe tapping "beat"). If you choose a non-quarter note time signature, the tempo shown is still referencing the quarter note within that metric. If you tell Logic you are in 2/2 (two half notes per bar) it will click only on the half notes, but the quarter note will have the numeric value you choose. That one seems easy, but since 6/8 (or 12/8 etc) have a 2:3 ratio, that is when the click starts to sound wrong. My two suggestions are: 1) Just play what you want via MIDI. You have the Studio Drummer sounds - just play it in; in layers of course. 2) Make a new song in 4/4, put the same groove you love into it (note that it will sync correctly with the tempo). Take a screen shot of it so you can see the order of the notes and timings for reference. You can delete it now. Go to your 6/8 song, import in the MIDI file into a track with Studio Drummer on it, Quantize to 8ths, then (this is good part!) manually move over the notes until they are in the right spot. This is where referencing the screen shot will help - just remember that you will need two full measures to equal one measure the way it was played. Once you do it right for this 2 bar segment, you can loop it and easily create variations. I hope this helps. Paul Bissell
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  • PaulCha
    Posts: 5
    Joined: May 21st, 2013
    Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    Paul, Many thanks for your considered and detailed reply. Its quite a lot to take in on first reading, but I believe I get the idea of what you are saying. I will go through your reply in detail so that I fully understand. I am not a drummer (am a guitar player), and was quite excited by the grooves provided by Studio Drummer. They are far more involved and interesting than what I can produce manually myself using the Studio Drummer sounds. I was looking to create a blues type track with the classic 6/8 feel. That's why I have been drawn to the 6/8 grooves. Having said that, I found it quite hard to count 6/8 when listening to these grooves. I will persevere, and try out your suggestions. Many thanks again, Paul
    Reply
  • Paul Bissell
    Posts: 73
    Joined: Jan 8th, 2010
    Re: Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    Paul, Right. I wonder if the 6/8 versus triplets thing isn't covered in one of the Music Theory videos. Which is the bigger mind warp; the issue of triplets versus standard 8ths (aka WHY they won't sync) or the so-called solutions to the problem that I gave? The other thing - which I didn't mention as it would probably have made MORE grey matter drip from your ears - is that Logic uses a shorthand notation for triplet rhythms that is incorrect (although very common) where if one plays the first and third note of a triplet, it will notate it as a dotted eighth and sixteenth note. It should be shown as a quarter note, and an eighth under a triplet bracket. And this isn't a part of the program's notation "Interpretation" feature. So, this is why if you look at the notation for the Studio Drummer grooves when placed into the DAW, you will see 16ths where none really exist. Sigh. I guess I should list option #3: Scrap what you have so far, use a 4/4 time signature and bring in the Studio Drummer loop first. Then replay all your stuff to that track and smile... Paul
    Reply
  • PaulCha
    Posts: 5
    Joined: May 21st, 2013
    Re: Kontakt 5-Studio Drummer- Grooves-Not synching wit...
    Paul, After your previous reply I did some reading via Wikipedia on time signatures and your explanations became clearer. However, I think I am going to give up on the grooves, and go for your option number 1. I found on youtube some nice clips of drummers playing simple to complicated 6/8 beats, and I think I can replicate them using the Studio Drummer. So I will have my 6/8 time signature set in logic, and can make my own matching loops. I would like to thank you for the time you have taken to reply to my questions. Honestly, when I put my initial question on this forum, I did not really expect a reply, certainly not one as detailed as yours. I guess I should actually watch the logic 101 tutorial I purchased and learn more about logic pro. Regards, Paul
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