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  • ProPhotog
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Jul 4th, 2011, 10:28
    FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    I have been working in FCPX since its release and I have to tell you it really sucks. I have to thank MPV for their great videos over the past few months. But I do believe its time for them (MacProVideo) to let their subscribers know that this is far from a professional editor. I'll give you two examples of just how bad it is. Many times when I drag a transition across the timeline it can be snatched and attached to another clip. Everything is connected to the main timeline. If you delete something there you can delete other clips or sometimes the entire project. Not having tracks is the crippling aspect of FCPX, the same thing that is supposed to make it the next best thing. I corrected a typo in a text element and it took over 4 minutes to render, which by the way...playback in the timeline is not smooth and does not always play back while rendering is happening. I know some of you may think this is harsh, but FCPX is as bad as it gets!!! While it has some things that I sooo wish I had in other editors, they just are not worth the time it takes to correct all the things that happen randomly...or just don't happen at all! iMac 27in. i7 3.4gh 16gb Ram SSD
    Reply
  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007, 12:54
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    Hi ProPhotog, Sorry to hear about your bad experience with FCPX. There have been some mixed reviews about the changes to the application with its use and its new features. We can only hope that Apple address the issues users are having. Unfortunately applications are always going to change. Hopefully we can benefit from these changes as the end-user.
    Reply
  • ProPhotog
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Jul 4th, 2011, 10:28
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    My point is this...forget about the "new changes" and the "new features". A lot of the new features I love...as support for an editing platform. The ability to see the effects and filters...these are great! Elements of the event browser are also very intuitive. But these are in support of the main editing process. Basic editing in FCPX in a project full of transitions, stills, effects and text many times just does not work as advertised. Its not fast...as advertised...the Trackless Timeline is not revolutionary...as advertised. Seriously, what do you really gain by having a Trackless Timeline?? Why does every element have to be "connected" to something else?? Why cant they just be independent?? I know you guys have commitments, and I appreciate having the forum for my comments which I really wish were nothing but praise for FCPX...but editors who make a living...most a very lean living...need to know that in its current state, FCPX is the single most time consuming Editor they can use in their workflow.
    Reply
  • BenB
    Posts: 501
    Joined: Feb 14th, 2011, 04:27
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    As a trainer and consultant for over a decade, I have to say that over the past 3 months I've had many, many, many professional editors loving FCP X and moving to it for the speed and ease of use. Hardware is very important, so making sure your hardware is up to par is very important. FCP X, like all NLE's, is not a one size fits all prospect. Yes, it is very different. But it fits the new metadata based all digital workflow better than any other NLE does yet. It is a version 1 of a new app and will have some growing pains. If you're not able to comprehend it, we understand, and wish you all the best on whatever other NLE you settle on using. But there are many, many, many of us professionals that are loving FCP X.
    Reply
  • ProPhotog
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Jul 4th, 2011, 10:28
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    Ben...seriously?... Please take no offense ok? To attempt to spin this as its "me" and not the Program is really irresponsible to the craft itself and to those looking for an editor to actually make money using. Just as many, many, many, many editors don't like FCPX! Not because of the great features it has like managing media and its pristine output at blazing speed. Its because things just don't work right. I'll give you a specific situation and we'll see if you can 'spin' it to where its my inability to "comprehend" what I am doing, or not doing. And had you read my previous post you would have known that in fact I have a very fast machine. 2011 iMac - i7 - 16gb - Dual HD (SSD) - 3.4, so that should lay to rest your theory that it might be my machine. I also have 2 external FW800 Drives for Raw footage storage. And while you may have been consulting and or teaching for a decade I challenge you to show me any demonstration or tutorial where FCPX is really pushed. What is really pushed you ask? Well I'll explain the scenario for you. Back to specifics... All of the tutorials I have seen anywhere (and I have subscriptions to several sites and have taken no less than 15 hours of tutelage on FCPX) are fairly simple projects. There is video in the main track, with a text element or two, and they add some effects here and there, often "undoing" many of the things they do. None of the projects are involved at all!! Can you prove me wrong?... So here is the scenario. Its a 30 sec spot with 18 tracks-levels-layers-stories (whatever you may call them, since this is supposed to be a trackless timeline) There were 7 below the main track and 8 above it. There was video, stills, color correction, 2 audio tracks, transitions, a keyed talking head over the main video, keyframes in the audio track and 3 social media icons(psd files) along with 2 custom generated backgrounds re-sized to create a plain lower third bar. Most of the transitions were dissolves and one was a lens flare. We are talking no less than 60+ separate elements...in 30 seconds So once again I ask you...have you seen any scenario like this in any tutorial? Most are movie making scenarios FCPX handles just fine. So, let me know if its because I just don't comprehend what I am doing that makes wanting to do something as simple as this the reason. Those 3 social media icons I had slightly staggered to fade in one after the other were in the timeline on top of each other. I wanted to move them down the timeline a bit so instead of moving them together, I did what you are supposed to be able to do...create a compound clip! Drag to select all 3, right click, select create compound clip...presto!!! Ok so here is where FCPX is just not ready for professional editors who are trying to save time. I click and began to drag the compound clip down just 2 seconds in the timeline and clips started jumping all over the place! The compound clip broke up and the separate elements found someplace to rest and the entire timeline had been rearranged!! Seriously Ben, does this sound like my ignorance, or my machine? Of course its not!!! Its in part because a trackless timeline with no boundaries acts like a bunch of magnets when they get too close to each other! And why does it make any sense for one clip to have to be attached to another? What purpose does it serve? And why does empty space have to be filled with those annoying black place holders?? And one more thing to chew on here Ben. I purchased several third party effects and transitions. But for the most part they are useless. I wanted the companies logo to transition in with a rotation using one of the transitions built into the editor. But for any cropped image, any transition affects the entire frame of view. There is no option to have the transition affect only the target clip or element. This is true with most of the transitions, making them all but useless. Most movements have to be keyframed. If not for "undo" putting things back in their place would take forever! Ben I assure you my knowledge or lack there-of has nothing to do with such happenings. And I would hope as the "Professional" you are, you make sure to recreate my findings so you can be sure to properly teach your students not only the good about FCPX but also its limitations before they drop 300 bucks on it. Especially when many, many, many, many, shorts have been produced with iMovie!!!(The single best cheap editor) The truth is I have yet to see productions where there as many elements in as short a time as I have produced with FCPX! I challenge you to load that timeline up with a bunch of stuff like I had to and then tell me how much I don't comprehend. While there are some wonderful things in FCPX, the Magnetic Timeline is not where your time is saved. I do not see the benefits of having a Magnetic timeline or the reason for connecting clips by default with no other option. If you are at all familiar with the Video Toaster NLE that's been around for years, it has an open timeline with tracks that you can move clips around anywhere you want, audio or video!! (Ours is older and not HD compatible) But it has separated tracks. Lay a transition on a clip...it only effects that clip. How simple can a concept be?! I hope you can see my point Ben. FCPX's problems could be a thing of the past if they simply have an open "track" system that automatically adds tracks based on where you position the clip. And don't say that would defeat the purpose, because my next question will be..."well whats the purpose??" Explain to my the benefit of a trackless "Magnetic" timeline...I do not see it and no one has yet to explain it. Have you discovered that those little shortcuts to do Insert Edits and the others only works on the main track and not the other tracks? Once you have your main track laid down, and you are working another set of clips above it, they are useless! You can't use them! I use the word "useless" for a reason in my title because too much of what is supposed to be cool and groovy, not to mention "Timesaving"...is in fact useless. Take your time and get back to me when you can...I do appreciate the chance to have dialogue that I hope will trickle down to the powers that be, so we can have an editor made by Apple that really is Professional. They did not maintain the standard the themselves help to set. I hope you and your family have a Happy Safe New Year!!!!
    Reply
  • BenB
    Posts: 501
    Joined: Feb 14th, 2011, 04:27
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    First of all, I do not "spin" anything. I state facts. And I apologize if you took this personally as I did not intend it to be such. I have done projects as you describe, and FCP X works for me personally, and many other professional editors. The editing techniques you describe are not difficult for "me personally" in FCP X. I'm very comfortable with it. So are many editors I personally work with daily across the country. But if you're not comfortable with the system, I totally understand. It's not for everyone. I stated that. "FCP X is not for everyone, and if you're not comfortable with it, don't use it." I would be more than happy to explain reasoning behind the many specific functions and tools you seem to not be comfortable with, but there are too many to cover in a short post. I would be more than happy to discuss this off board and directly if you sincerely wanted to learn FCP X's tools and workflow. Again, I sincerely apologize if you took my post personally, but I think you're someone FCP X doesn't work for, and it doesn't work for everyone, no single NLE does. I actually encourage those who are not comfortable with FCP X to use another NLE. Not everyone was comfortable with legacy FCP versions, and I encouraged them to find what worked for them. But to rant about it not working for you is not constructive. Use what works for you, and stick to it. That's all I've ever said and I'm sorry you misunderstood my previous post. I really did not mean anything to be focused on you personally as being inadequate in any way. I sincerely wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors. And if I can ever be of assistance to you, do not hesitate to contact me.
    Reply
  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007, 12:54
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    That is true that FCP isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea unfortunately. I think guys who first start with FCPX will take to it. But editors coming from a older FCP or Premier background will not like its new take on editing tools and features.
    Reply
  • ProPhotog
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Jul 4th, 2011, 10:28
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    "That's all I've ever said and I'm sorry you misunderstood my previous post. I really did not mean anything to be focused on you personally as being inadequate in any way." "But if you're not comfortable with the system, I totally understand. It's not for everyone." Ben please know that taking these statements personally is not a bad thing. It is a personal statement to suggest that I didn't comprehend something as simple as combining 3 separate elements with their transitions into a compound clip and moving it as a whole a few seconds back. (A situation that in its specificity you did not confirm you had actually tried to execute) Nor did you address whether you can Append, Insert ect. edit into other parts of the timeline area using the shortcuts. These are just 2 specific things among many that are not a question of being "comfortable" with, its a matter of very poor execution by the developers of the platform that make them all but useless. I respectively pointed out specifics that I would hope you address, such as the issue using transitions on specific elements that have been cropped where only the target is affected by the transition and not the whole frame of view. How can this be something that anyone would want to be comfortable with? Is this what you suggest? Its almost like this is political where no matter what your favorite party does you agree with it! Should these relatively simple tasks not...just work?? All I ask is that you research the specifics and use any clout you have to help bring about the basic changes of having what is in FCPX work as advertised. Oftentimes when folks take the time to express the specifics of situations its called a rant. I don't take the time to do this just because.... no, its because i want to bring to the surface issues that all of us editors should press Apple to fix. So please I ask that you stop looking at what I am doing in any other way than attempting to press all of us to put pressure on Apple. No one wants to love FCPX more than me, but I just can't. And since no refund is available for me, I'll have to keep all 3 programs on my system. Let me know after you test on your system the specific things I pointed out to you, especially the use of transitions on cropped images outside of the main timeline. Having now used P5.5 in the past few weeks, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the power of individual tracks and their predictability! And also let me know what is the advantage of not having tracks and the "connecting" to other elements. I don't see the advantages to the editor. I appreciate your input in advance!
    Reply
  • BenB
    Posts: 501
    Joined: Feb 14th, 2011, 04:27
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    1st, you are attacking first, then asking us to justify things to you. That’s not asking honest questions about specific functions. But I’ll give it a go here. To be clear, I’ve been editing pretty much my whole life, and yes, have done some very complex Timelines in FCP X with great speed and ease of use. You can do 15 hours of YouTube videos and still not be properly educated. Have you done the Ripple Training or macProVideo full trainings? iMacs and laptops don’t have the best GPU’s for using FCP X and Motion 5. They are adequate, better than older models, but not the power you’d want for doing large scale, long form productions. “There is video in the main track, with a text element or two, and they add some effects here and there, often "undoing" many of the things they do. None of the projects are involved at all!! Can you prove me wrong?” * This makes no logical sense to me, I have no clue what you’re talking about to be honest. “ We are talking no less than 60+ separate elements...in 30 seconds So once again I ask you...have you seen any scenario like this in any tutorial?” * Yes I have, and do them daily, and don’t have any problems outside of a few known bugs we’re waiting for the next update to fix. “Those 3 social media icons I had slightly staggered to fade in one after the other were in the timeline on top of each other. I wanted to move them down the timeline a bit so instead of moving them together, I did what you are supposed to be able to do...create a compound clip!” * No one ever said you are “supposed” to do anything a specific way. Like all NLE’s, there are several options. I’d simply Cmd-click to select them all at one time and drag them to where I want them to be. Or you could make them a Compound if you wanted. There are a number of ways to do this. “I click and began to drag the compound clip down just 2 seconds in the timeline and clips started jumping all over the place! The compound clip broke up and the separate elements found someplace to rest and the entire timeline had been rearranged!!” * Sounds like several things going on here. You’re zoomed out to far so the mouse doesn’t have the accuracy you need, which is a fact for all NLE’s. You’re dragging too fast and furious, which is a common problem to all NLE’s. I’ve worked extensively with FCP X and never had this problem. Once or twice a student has trouble dragging connected clips, until we look at zooming in/our, resizing track heights, etc, to make working in the Timeline easier and more accurate. This is true for all timeline windows in all NLEs. It’s not like magnets that get too close to each other, it’s the accuracy of dragging your mouse, which I’ve never heard or seen anyone who I’ve worked with across the country having such a serious problem. “And why does it make any sense for one clip to have to be attached to another?” * To avoid things going out of sync, a very, very, very common problem in all NLE’s except FCP X. “And why does empty space have to be filled with those annoying black place holders?” Gap Clips allow us to work with empty spaces like regular clips, to adjust duration and placement very quickly and easily, as well as do replace edits super fast and easy without having to jump through hoops as other NLE’s make you do. “ I purchased several third party effects and transitions. But for the most part they are useless.” I never purchase a third part product unless I need it for a paying project that will cover the cost, and it does exactly what I need. “There is no option to have the transition affect only the target clip or element.” * I make lots of my own custom effects and transitions with Motion, and have customized the existing ones extensively with very little effort. Motion is worth learning. “Ben I assure you my knowledge or lack there-of has nothing to do with such happenings.” * I have to disagree. “And I would hope as the "Professional" you are, you make sure to recreate my findings so you can be sure to properly teach your students not only the good about FCPX but also its limitations before they drop 300 bucks on it.” * I’ve done what you’re trying to do, an much, much more complex edits on a daily basis. “I challenge you to load that timeline up with a bunch of stuff like I had to and then tell me how much I don't comprehend.” * Again, I do on a daily basis, and can not give you the answers you ask for, as I’ve run this gamut with others who have their negative opinions and nothing anyone says will change their mind. So this is my final response. Best of luck. “While there are some wonderful things in FCPX, the Magnetic Timeline is not where your time is saved.” * Saves me and others tons of time. We can move assets around in the Timeline anywhere we want them to be. My last statement on this thread is that FCP X is not the NLE for you personally, I recommend moving to MC or PPro. Perhaps Vegas would serve you better. As for giving advice and helping folks to learn FCP X, I have dozens and dozens of professionals across the country loving it, I have close friends who hate it. One NLE does not work for everyone in every situation. Find what works for you, stick to it, be happy. If it does not work for you, move on, don't stay stuck in negativity. It's not productive.
    Reply
  • ProPhotog
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Jul 4th, 2011, 10:28
    Re: FCPX useless...switching to Premier 5.5!!
    And this too will be my last response, so I hope you read it. First, and this is not an attack but a definitive observation of what you said that makes my doubt your sincerity in wanting to make FCPX a real professional editor instead of just a cheerleader for a sub-par program. "iMacs and laptops donâ��t have the best GPUâ��s for using FCP X and Motion 5. They are adequate, better than older models, but not the power youâ��d want for doing large scale, long form productions." (oh and for some reason, some of what you wrote looked like this.) This is just not true! Here are several quotes that back me up. (The new iMac is as powerful as Mac Pro systems from last year. It's also a performance competitor to dedicated multimedia systems like the HP Pavilion Elite HPE 140f.) That from PC Mag. (Of course, the brand new iMac might be faster than the current generation Mac Pro, but the Mac Pro hasn't been updated since last July.) That from MacRumors. (While the standard-configuration models of Apple's iMac offer impressive performance, if you choose a couple of build-to-order (BTO) options, you can have a 27-inch iMac with a 3.4GHz Core i7 quad-core processor and a 256GB SSD—an iMac that's even faster than a Mac Pro.) That from MacWorld. So at this point I am seriously doubting your credibility if you don't know how fast and capable these machines are, and yes its what I have! I never attacked anyone as you suggest. I simply vented my frustration and in my very first post I added several specific instances of how the editor kills time. And to say "I have no idea what you are talking about" with regards to the sample projects in the tutorial videos on every site including MacProVideo.com means you are not really interested in knowing how the editor works with regards to complex timelines. Without the ability to use several screens, even on my 27in. screen when you have no less than 8 tracks below and above the main track its hard to see everything even with the timeline collapsed. (which i do all the time) And to say that I should not be so negative is simply ignoring the specific situations that I have presented. To say that clips are connected so that they all stay in sync is ridiculous. The fact that deleting one clip and having it delete many others is not the editor having full control. I want the option to connect clips if I want them in sync. Does this not make sense to you? You never said that you can in fact place a transition on a cropped image and have only that clip be effected and not everything else....specifically! In my very first post, I never said anything against anyone...just the program itself and of course the implication applies to the developers. I would have loved for you to have actually proved me wrong by showing me how you can apply a transition(s) on a cropped image and have it work on just that element. But you didn't! A simple task, right. No biggee!! But no, you suggested I learn Motion1?!? Seriously?? You can't show me anything because it won't work and you know it. And all I want is for the developers at Apple to understand that for 'real' professional editors doing work on a timescale that there are serious issues in FCPX that take as much time away as it saves the editor. That's it! Not trying to be negative or attack anyone. Especially you! But you dug that hole by saying an iMAC is not capable of the job, when in fact even the newer laptops from Mac are quite capable too!! You see my friend, I am not a Mac hater, I just want them to maintain the standard they set years ago! You should be dedicated to no less. You in your passion severely misunderstood my intent, that is unless you have a different agenda. Accountability is a mother isn't it???
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