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  • Master IDK
    Posts: 2
    Joined: Dec 8th, 2009
    Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    1] have been studying Steve h's mastering tutorial and am curious as to why he's using logic instead of waveburner to do his mastering..... 2] also how does he get his files to what he calls universal track mode?
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  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    1) Waveburner is a dedicated audio processor suitable for mastering and CD burning. But there is no reason you cannot master in Logic. It all depends on your preference. I personally prefer Logic's user interface than to Waveburner. The only limitation if you master in Logic is that you don't have all the advanced CD burning facilities such as creating markers for different tracks, and labeling the CD-Text. You could also master in Logic and then bring the bounced out master files into Waveburner and make use of marker and CD labeling facilities. 2) Go to the Logic menu > then Preferences > Audio. And make sure that Universal Track Mode is ticked before importing your audio into the Logic project.
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  • Master IDK
    Posts: 2
    Joined: Dec 8th, 2009
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    Gary, I'm using logic to master each track and then using WB to assemble the whole project as per your advice.... was frustrated cause I tried to bounce my mixes then select them at start up. which did not work.maybe import is the key word here.... I discovered that i could save a bounce to the bin and then work on mastering in 2 track format..... I figured this stuff out towards the end of the project and actually mastered the cuts in multi track format.... fortunately this is not complex music .... 6 tracks max.... thanks Mike
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  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    Like JMike, I am using Logic to mix and master, and then am pulling the mastered bounces into Waveburner for CD assembly, mainly because I like the layout and wanted to explore this tool. But there is something I'm confused about. I kept all of the mastered bounces as 24-bit files and pulled those into Waveburner. I was expecting that one of the screens for either bouncing the project or for burning a CD would prompt me about what type of dithering I wanted to use and for designating 16-bit conversion, but I didn't see these things. So I went ahead and bounced the prject and burned the CD. All songs seem to play OK, but I'm not sure if they sound exacttly the same. Can someone enlighten me about how Waveburner handles 24-bit files and what happens when a CD is burned? Thanks.
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  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    When you bounce the tracks with Waveburner to CD there are converted to 16-bit. Also make sure dithering is applied. Go to Waveburner > Preferences > Bounce. Make sure a dithering option is applied. Either of the POWr options will work. If the CD works on a CD player that is good news. Because a CD player would not recognize and playback a 24-bit audio file.
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  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    Thanks Gary. I found that in Waveburner (under Preferences / Audio) after I asked the question. Should have looked around a little more first.
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  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    Great stuff. Glad your sorted.
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  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    Gary, Coming back to this thread, if you don't mind, I'm still uncertain about exactly what is happening in Waveburner. As I described above, I master songs in Logic and retain 24-bit for the stereo bounces with no dithering (duh). I then import the songs into Waveburner for CD compilation. Out of curiosity, I turned off dithering in Waveburner's Preferences (Bounce tab) and then executed a CD burn from the Waveview page (not p;receded by a bounce). According to your description above about Waveburner behavior, the files should have automatically been reduced to 16 bits. Typically, when I burn to disc in Waveburner (hit the Burn button) from the Waveview page (prior to making a bounce of the entire project), if a dithering algorithm was selected, I see a scroll bar for bouncing, even though I didn't select Bounce, prior to initiation of the CD burn. But in this case, with dithering turned off, the burn from the Waveview page commenced immediately. So I fully expected that the CD would contain 16-bit files that had not undergone dithering, and so would contain artifacts. But when I gave it the 'test drive' in my car CD player, it sounded fine. Maybe I'm not listening well enough, but shouldn't there be noticeable artifacts?
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  • Rexinator
    Posts: 43
    Joined: May 30th, 2009
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    I might be having a one-way conversation with myself on this subject, presumably because it's been beat to death previously. I googled and checked several forums, but did not obtain any clear info on exactly what WB's processing steps are. As far as I can tell from my own experiments, bouncing a WB project will render it to 16-bit and will engage dithering if one of the 3 algorithms is selected under WB Preferences / Bounce. This will yield a composite single wav file of all of the songs, with individual song markers in place as they were located in the Waveview screen (when the project was created). This bounced file can be burned directly to disc, and I'm assuming that no further dithering will be applied because the file is already at 16 bits. One part I still I don't understand is why there is an option to bounce with no dithering. Perhaps that would be useful if you wanted to bounce only certain regions (individual songs) and then re-import them back into WB, prior to the final bounce. If you do that (i.e., select No Dithering), you'd have to remember to turn it back on for the final bounce. But here's the part that's most confusing for me: To satisfy my curiosity, I bounced an entire project consisting of 24-bit non-dithered) songs after choosing No Dithering in WB's preferences. This again yielded a single wav file, and as per my above assumptions, this should be a 16-bit file with no dithering applied during the bit reduction from 24 to 16. Burning this to disc should theoretically contain audible artifacts because of the lack of dithering. But the resulting CD was indistinguishable sonically from the one I burned from dithered bounce. Does WB make an 'executive decision' to maintain the current bit depth during a bounce when No Dithering is selected in WB's Preferences? And if so, would the 24-bit bounce be secretly dithered when burning to CD (to properly manage the bit reduction), even though no dithering algorithm was selected anywhere? In other words, is WB idiot-proof.
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  • GaryHiebner
    Posts: 1434
    Joined: May 6th, 2007
    Re: Waveburner/Steve H's logic 401
    Hi Rexinator. Roughly speaking dithering is a broadband noise that is added to the digital signal and isn't extremely audible. You have brought up some interesting questions which can probably only be answered in one way: I would highly recommend getting [b]Mastering Audio: The art and science[/b] by Bob Katz. [url]http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Audio-The-Art-Science/dp/0240808371[/url] This is a comprehensive book that coveres the whole mastering process and will answer all your questions. From getting your songs ready for the mastering process through to the finalizing and burning process of the disc. This book includes all the information that you are asking about, and covers it quite in depth. Its a book that takes numerous reads for it to fully sink in, but is well worth it. So I can't answer you question exactly with you can bounce a disc with or without dithering. But I would highly recommend bouncing it with dither as it is all apart of the finalization process of the disc burning getting it ready fro consumer products such as CD players and home sound systems. I hope this helps. I have sort of skipped over answering your question and have pointed you elsewhere. But this book will truly answer all your questions with regard to mastering and finalizing your audio.
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